I do, because dropping huge loads of cash on stuff you don't understand at all and without doing any real research is what stupid people do. Also, if we were only talking about someone tricked into this shady business, you'd (almost) have a point, but we're talking about guys who simply refuse to look at hard truth for emotional reasons. We can use "fool", if the word seem nicer to you.
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Review and Measurements of the PS Audio Stellar Gain Cell DAC
- Thread starter amirm
- Start date
What debate? I'm not stupid enough to think I can change stupid people. Entertainment is the only thing I get from these kind of secret clubs.
Fool is a good word. Anyone, no matter how intelligent, can be “made the fool.” Let’s also remember that science evolves and nearly all physics thought “true” in the 1700s by very brilliant people turned out be be “wrong”. We mostly believe what we are taught be people we trust.
solderdude
Grand Contributor
When people research a lot before buying then they must have done their part.
Once you google 'gain cell' all you will get is BS Audio BS and lots of raving reviews.
When you are into 'hifi' and 'high-end' there is nothing much else to read than the online BS.
Problem is that the majority of the readers and potential customers really have no idea and read the BS written everywhere and want to read how great it is.
Nobody, except a few that hang out here and on some other places, is interested in plots, graphs and numbers... they want reviews and want to read how good it sounds. They want to know if it is a good deal or great sounding.
I would not call those people stupid. They are just misguided by the industry behind it and have no idea. I can't blame them.
Once you google 'gain cell' all you will get is BS Audio BS and lots of raving reviews.
When you are into 'hifi' and 'high-end' there is nothing much else to read than the online BS.
Problem is that the majority of the readers and potential customers really have no idea and read the BS written everywhere and want to read how great it is.
Nobody, except a few that hang out here and on some other places, is interested in plots, graphs and numbers... they want reviews and want to read how good it sounds. They want to know if it is a good deal or great sounding.
I would not call those people stupid. They are just misguided by the industry behind it and have no idea. I can't blame them.
That's wrong, though. If by "intelligent", you only mean high IQ (i.e. most scientists), yes, it's not the same as wisdom. But I have the impression that intelligence and wisdom are the same in english everyday talk.
Can you illuminate us how to do real research?. At century XXI we just have internet to do 'real research', so if manucturers
That's not wrong, but not entirely true either. Someone intelligent but completely ignorant of a field will still smell the bullshit from miles away. But yeah, "naive" might be more appropriate in this case.
Like most here, I have a scientific background, so sadly, I can't represent the average joe just "surfin' on the web".
Before I knew anything about audio, I still didn't look at subjective reviews and would never have spent thousands on stuff that was obviously pure marketing. My first system was a Yamaha AS-300 and pair of Dali Zensor 1 because Yamaha as a brand seemed no bullshit to me and the Dalis were cheap and Dali looked like they had some R&D going on.
Rather than name calling I just choose to emphasize the beliefs I’ve arrived at, and open-mindedness (if low expectation) to being proved wrong in a controlled manner. I’ve arrived at my beliefs in a Bayesian process of regularly revised probabilities, rather than a formally deductive manner, so I stick with that approach.
[spellcheck changed deductive to seductive there....hmm]
I will, however, happily resort to invective when people roll-out the highly unlikely Golden Ears claim and talk down to me. Those people are definitely stupid. Nobody should think their own listening experience is a club with which to attack others.
And I don’t mind taking shots at overwrought rhetoric about “night and day differences” that are more like 3pm and 3:01pm differences. And are somehow too subtle to be detected in controlled,unsighted, comparison. Vendors overcharging for such ephemera deserve our contempt.
[spellcheck changed deductive to seductive there....hmm]
I will, however, happily resort to invective when people roll-out the highly unlikely Golden Ears claim and talk down to me. Those people are definitely stupid. Nobody should think their own listening experience is a club with which to attack others.
And I don’t mind taking shots at overwrought rhetoric about “night and day differences” that are more like 3pm and 3:01pm differences. And are somehow too subtle to be detected in controlled,unsighted, comparison. Vendors overcharging for such ephemera deserve our contempt.
solderdude
Grand Contributor
naive it is and also desperate to believe what is written in so many reviews and on manufacturer pages.
Who doesn't want to believe Paul's videos. You need to have some electronics knowledge to know where the BS starts.
Hint... it starts when he starts with ... weeelllll
Who doesn't want to believe Paul's videos. You need to have some electronics knowledge to know where the BS starts.
Hint... it starts when he starts with ... weeelllll
I don't believe those two are commonly mixed up or interchanged. I think you are reaching...
Well, but average people still don't mean g factor/IQ when they say intelligence, right?
They may or may not, but they wouldn't confuse any of that with wisdom.
Trying not to be defensive. But what part of my comments do you find "wrong"? Seeking to understand.
The "Anyone, no matter how intelligent, can be “made the fool.” " part. It hinges on what "intelligent" means in this case. You can easily trick an intelligent man, but not a wise one.
We'll have to agree to disagree. I think the history of the world is replete with wise men being fooled, at least for a time. Plato, too, gave too much credit to wise men, so you're in good company.
The wise one was Socrates, though.
Your inner troll is showing...
When the AVRs didn’t measure up to some lofty benchmarks, it confirmed the bias of some people that never liked AVRs or never got into them that they were right to go with separates. So, they concluded AVRs were the wrong solution.
Units like these show that going to separates is not necessarily the panacea that some think. You might just land up paying a lot more for getting similar or less results in quality of engineering.
AVRs will be the dominant devices for a long time that will have better QPR than most separates for typical consumer use. The practical approach is to find some that are sufficient for the purposes they are intended than satisfying some lofty goals that are even difficult to achieve in an equivalent stack of separates.
But if one just gets off on finding Piñatas to bash up in the audio world, there will be plenty of these shark-feeding frenzies in the future.
Units like these show that going to separates is not necessarily the panacea that some think. You might just land up paying a lot more for getting similar or less results in quality of engineering.
AVRs will be the dominant devices for a long time that will have better QPR than most separates for typical consumer use. The practical approach is to find some that are sufficient for the purposes they are intended than satisfying some lofty goals that are even difficult to achieve in an equivalent stack of separates.
But if one just gets off on finding Piñatas to bash up in the audio world, there will be plenty of these shark-feeding frenzies in the future.
if you didn't look at subjetive reviews, you looked at no reviews, since the measurement oriented slice of hifi audio has been historically residual. ASR is the first serious effort into that direction.
BTW I'm almost sure that my scientific background is orders (plural, no singular) of magnitude beyond yours, and I don't do such a strong claims.
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