ATC speakers / Monitors

[DSJR]

I would guess that the SCM25 and the SCM40A sound fairly similar, they pretty much share the same frequency extension and have similar drivers. The 25s may have the higher-specced drivers but I doubt it will be a night-and-day difference in sound quality because of that.

There are probably very few people who have compared them side by side, as the shops selling them are likely either pro dealers or regular HiFi dealers. Also, the demo environments are likely highly different with an acoustically treated room at the pro dealer, and a fairly untreated room at the HiFi shop. I also think it’s a risk of expectation bias towards the professional speaker being the better one.

Have anyone here heard them side by side?

The late 90's change to the SL drivers was a revelation I remember, the ability to play quietly so much better than the 100A's I had. Some said the 50's went a bit 'bright' but to me they simply reverted in balance to the early 90's version (with simpler amp 'handles' on).

Domestic dealers will sell what makes them profit and I'm increasingly convinced that too many dealer staff members these days lack any real electronic or science education in general, nor it seems the curiosity to try to find out about the products they sell and install. Sure I'm painting with a broad brush here though.

 

[goat76]

Definitely wasn't calling you or anyone in particular out. I didn't even watch the whole video. It's more that the wall o' monitors has been gnawing at my subconscious for awhile and I had to say something.

I think the wall of monitors can be okay for the initial selection, you can probably hear certain characteristics you don’t like about some of the monitors and scrap them out of the list. But for the remaining selection of monitors you pinned down as interesting to you, a more controlled acoustic environment with the monitors properly set up for the final verdict is likely needed. Better yet a home demo if that's possible.

 

[Liya]

No, but I know they are often backordered.

I have some numbers to ponder.
They employ 73 people on the production line. In 2023 they had a turnover of £7.2 million in their pro business. We don't know what models are selling best, but we can assume that probably somewhere around the middle of their catalogue -
SCM25, 45, 50 - UK prices respectively, £7400, £10300, £14000, with the average around £10000.
With this in mind we can then assume that they have sold around 700 pair of pro speakers. I know it's only a wild guess, but the numbers (employees and turnover) are real.

 

[YSC]

I have some numbers to ponder.
They employ 73 people on the production line. In 2023 they had a turnover of £7.2 million in their pro business. We don't know what models are selling best, but we can assume that probably somewhere around the middle of their catalogue -
SCM25, 45, 50 - UK prices respectively, £7400, £10300, £14000, with the average around £10000.
With this in mind we can then assume that they have sold around 700 pair of pro speakers. I know it's only a wild guess, but the numbers (employees and turnover) are real.

likely be pretty close to the truth, you have own facilities, made in UK, a well known brand and limited production capacity, in order to get everyone happy, why not just charge more than some other competitions as long as it sells

 

[Pearljam5000]

O

I have some numbers to ponder.
They employ 73 people on the production line. In 2023 they had a turnover of £7.2 million in their pro business. We don't know what models are selling best, but we can assume that probably somewhere around the middle of their catalogue -
SCM25, 45, 50 - UK prices respectively, £7400, £10300, £14000, with the average around £10000.
With this in mind we can then assume that they have sold around 700 pair of pro speakers. I know it's only a wild guess, but the numbers (employees and turnover) are real.

Only 700?
How much does Genelec sell?

 

[DSJR]

They sell a lot of the large tower models to far eastern markets and we're looking at £20k - £30k a pair for these. 50's in either form are I suspect, more for the domestic market now as 25's would probably have taken over in pro circles and I've seen increasing numbers of 45A's too.

I'm surprised the 25 and 45 don't seem to have the SL bass drivers which claims to reduce odd order distortions. Nobody to ask now, but it surprises me I must say...

 

[Purité Audio]

Have they always been in Gypsy Lane?

 

[Liya]

likely be pretty close to the truth, you have own facilities, made in UK, a well known brand and limited production capacity, in order to get everyone happy, why not just charge more than some other competitions as long as it sells

They also sell around half of the production to Far East countries, the rest goes equally to UK, Europe and US. We don't see any signs (real products, announcement, news from R&D team) re any new products/projects/ideas they are working on. Last year they spent £97k on R&D and their profit was £1.5 milion. I wonder whether they can sustain this business strategy for long.

 

[Liya]

O

Only 700?
How much does Genelec sell?

700 is an assumption based on employees, turnover and average cost of ATC pro speakers. See above.
Worth checking Genelec.

 

[JustJones]

O

Only 700?
How much does Genelec sell?

If you would get a job marketing for them they would sell a lot more.

 

[Liya]

They sell a lot of the large tower models to far eastern markets and we're looking at £20k - £30k a pair for these. 50's in either form are I suspect, more for the domestic market now as 25's would probably have taken over in pro circles and I've seen increasing numbers of 45A's too.

I'm surprised the 25 and 45 don't seem to have the SL bass drivers which claims to reduce odd order distortions. Nobody to ask now, but it surprises me I must say...

If they sell more bigger pro models, then they make way less then 700 pairs a year.

 

[Liya]

If you would get a job marketing for them they would sell a lot more.

 

[DSJR]

Have they always been in Gypsy Lane?View attachment 352625

Yes! Maybe not in their very earliest days, but certainly since the late 80's at least.

The building on the left part shown was the original factory where my 20's and 100A's were made including drive units. The building on the right was offices, Billy's tractor store (I kid you not) and the old chapel on the back became a dem room. Sometime after my times with the brand, the left hand building was sold or leased off and was a few years back a garden centre, Billy's 'stuff' was cleared out of the right hand building and the resulting space turned into the factory proper as it is now, much lighter, brighter and I'm sure *better* overall.

What you now see as the car park straight ahead used to be grassed over with a path connecting the two 'units' together. The car park was to the left of the left unit.

Just checked on 2023 Google Street View. Looks like they've a whole new larger factory now to the left of the old complex nearer the junction and they appear to have the original factory back as well now in the middle with old car park on view*, there being three gates to the complex now along Gypsy Lane.

Good for them

*I'll never forget when I took both of my 100A speakers down to the factory and it took two of us heaving and puffing to get them on their side 'trays' in the back of an 'estate' car - moving the effing things always caused difficulty as they're so damned heavy! Two strapping spindly lads from the factory gently slid each tray (with speaker laying on its side) out of the tailgate and walked one at each end without seemingly any effort with them into the factory! Comparing response plots of freshly made and two years of (often LOUD) use, they were identical as one should expect. I had no means of scanning said plots I was given and sadly, they went with the speakers when I sold them to an old friend and once he passed away twelve or so years ago, I know nothing of their fate. I do miss 'em hugely though, however dated they may be now (they had the SL driver and port mod done at the factory after I sold them).

 

[RobL]

O

Only 700?
How much does Genelec sell?

From Wikipedia, fwiw:

 

[holdingpants01]

From Wikipedia, fwiw:
View attachment 352635

Looks like Genelec have more profit than ATC have revenue. No wonder ATC doesn't even try to innovate, they barely scrape by

 

[Liya]

Looks like Genelec have more profit than ATC have revenue. No wonder ATC doesn't even try to innovate, they barely scrape by

Yeah, around 7 times more profit than ATC.

 

[RobL]

It’s interesting that many of the audio companies are really kinda small outfits. Where I live (village of ~500) there is a company that manufactures concrete products. They are roughly the same size (employees and revenue) as Genelec!

 

[Liya]

It’s interesting that many of the audio companies are really kinda small outfits. Where I live (village of ~500) there is a company that manufactures concrete products. They are roughly the same size (employees and revenue) as Genelec!

I think it's safe to say that the pro audio sector is made up of small businesses.
Question is: do you have to innovate in this sector to survive? Can you just go 'forever' with the same portfolio of products?
Generally speaking, in business it is important to take risks, and not just play safe, because someone else will take that risk and innovate and, as a result, our business will go down. If we will play it safe, we won't win the game. How does this apply to the studio monitors sector?

 

[holdingpants01]

I think it's safe to say that the pro audio sector is made up of small businesses.
Question is: do you have to innovate in this sector to survive? Can you just go 'forever' with the same portfolio of products?
Generally speaking, in business it is important to take risks, and not just play safe, because someone else will take that risk and innovate and, as a result, our business will go down. If we will play it safe, we won't win the game. How does this apply to the studio monitors sector?

Studio and music industry is rather weird in that there's this extreme push towards nostalgia and vintage everything parallel to the one towards digital and future. The most hot synthesisers of the last few years are mono and poly analogs yet used with a DAW, or things like digital guitar pedals that simulate worn out tape delays, or for example 60 years old analog compressor design in a box but controlled through a plugin. So on one hand we use latest computers, but with a DAW that's still in the Windows XP era like Pro Tools, but with cutting edge AI designed plugins that imitate old and noisy tape machines, creating music that sound like 70s revival band but is distributed virally on TikTok in mono, but at the same time in Dolby Atmos on Apple Music lol.
ATC fit the nostalgic part of the industry, so they can continue as is, especially with so high value brand name. There's no way any company will take over their niche at this point, as there's not much money there so why even bother, plus you can't just create a brand that have the similar legacy.

 

[YSC]

They also sell around half of the production to Far East countries, the rest goes equally to UK, Europe and US. We don't see any signs (real products, announcement, news from R&D team) re any new products/projects/ideas they are working on. Last year they spent £97k on R&D and their profit was £1.5 milion. I wonder whether they can sustain this business strategy for long.

I would say likely very long, as they are not bad speakers especially when a room built for it in a single MLP, SOTA might be less important than familiarity in sound signature as pros likely would prefer needing less off time to re adapt to a new system, so when it’s not bad, just maybe not as update or SOTA to others the motivation to switch brand is low