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Blacklisting Reviewers.

ads_cft222

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Science illuminates facts , it is inclusive and responds to various opinions and arguments in a constructive way. It tests , validates, rejects or just remains agnostic until further evidence is presented or discovered. Banning and ridiculing are lower level traits that push societies backwards.
 

voodooless

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Where is the OP anyway? Has been online, but hasn't commented since starting a clearly controversial thread... 6 posts in 2.5 years.
Maybe they blacklisted themselves :oops:

Science illuminates facts , it is inclusive and responds to various opinions and arguments in a constructive way. It tests , validates, rejects or just remains agnostic until further evidence is presented or discovered. Banning and ridiculing are lower level traits that push societies backwards.
I mostly agree, especially about the banning. But to purvey all the science, knowledge, and arguments, powerful communication tools are needed. Sadly this is a communications warr, and just relying on the fact that your messaging is the truth will not cut it in this day and age. A bit of ridicule goes a long way to draw attention. and if done in the right way, can be used to enhance the message you want to spread in a much better way. Obviously, this is a delicate line to walk, and surely not the only powerful communications tool available, but in some cases, it can work very well and can be educational as well.
 

ads_cft222

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I mostly agree, especially about the banning. But to purvey all the science, knowledge, and arguments, powerful communication tools are needed. Sadly this is a communications warr, and just relying on the fact that your messaging is the truth will not cut it in this day and age. A bit of ridicule goes a long way to draw attention. and if done in the right way, can be used to enhance the message you want to spread in a much better way. Obviously, this is a delicate line to walk, and surely not the only powerful communications tool available, but in some cases, it can work very well and can be educational as well.
I don't agree on the war side. Why it needs to be a war? People who have a lot of money and are the ones to be able to afford expensive equipment are able to judge for themselves if they are getting the value they need or not. They don't need anyone to save them. Save them from what? From their pleasure?

On the other hand the vast subjectivity that permeates many audiophile reviews should be counter balanced with measured results, just to have a sanity check to plain opinions. Although and I am clear about that I don't blind buy on opinions and I don't blind buy on measurements. I want to have access to both.

If something is good it is good regardless of price and it will be known and it will affect the other players.
 

voodooless

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I don't agree on the war side. Why it needs to be a war?
Because we're dealing with an industry that is feeding on ignorance, and does everything in its power to keep it that way.
People who have a lot of money and are the ones to be able to afford expensive equipment are able to judge for themselves if they are getting the value they need or not. They don't need anyone to save them. Save them from what? From their pleasure?
I don't care much about what people do with their money, especially not if they have enough of it. I do care though what companies tell you about their products. And let's not forget that it's also people with not that much money who are persuaded to part with a lot of cash for some nonsense products. Not everyone can know everything. You'll need to be able to rely on information from others. And in this industry, if you go to the regular outlets, you just can't.
 

fpitas

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are able to judge for themselves if they are getting the value they need or not. They don't need anyone to save them. Save them from what? From their pleasure?
That's just the point though: they don't have the means to properly judge. We have shown over and over again that expectation and sighted listening can give incorrect results. ASR can at least show the right way to assess equipment and offer valid reviews. I don't really care what they spend, I just wish they wouldn't support con men.
 

ads_cft222

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That's just the point though: they don't have the means to properly judge. We have shown over and over again that expectation and sighted listening can give incorrect results. ASR can at least show the right way to assess equipment and offer valid reviews. I don't really care what they spend, I just wish they wouldn't support con men.
I will share a story. My first time in to a hi fi store and I had set a modest budget from the beginning. I was listening to equipment and after I have listened to my current speakers (elac carina) the dealer praised the MBL 126 (an over 10k speakers) it had on display. I was listening the setup with elac alchemy pre/power. He wanted to me to hear if I wanted to step up at some time in the future. I had a lot of expectation given the price and looks. When I listened to them I found them harsh. I did not like them. So, in the end you will make the calculation if what you hear is satisfying to you and will not part with your money for no reason!
 

fpitas

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I will share a story. My first time in to a hi fi store and I had set a modest budget from the beginning. I was listening to equipment and after I have listened to my current speakers (elac carina) the dealer praised the MBL 126 (an over 10k speakers) it had on display. I was listening the setup with elac alchemy pre/power. He wanted to me to hear if I wanted to step up at some time in the future. I had a lot of expectation given the price and looks. When I listened to them I found them harsh. I did not like them. So, in the end you will make the calculation if what you hear is satisfying to you and will not part with your money for no reason!
That's one positive outcome. You must be aware that people buy all manner of snake oil cables and what have you on the strength of online reviews.
 

voodooless

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people buy all manner of snake oil cables and what have you on the strength of online reviews.
It also happens in stores. What if instead of speakers, the guys would "audition" a €$ 1000 power cable, and you would have liked it, while in reality, it makes absolutely no difference...? Many people will part with their money quite easily.
 

fpitas

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It also happens in stores. What if instead of speakers, the guys would "audition" a €$ 1000 power cable, and you would have liked it, while in reality, it makes absolutely no difference...? Many people will part with their money quite easily.
For all we know, the salesmen might believe in that stuff.
 

fpitas

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Then there's biwiring and biamping. I guess to someone naive it may seem unbelievable that manufacturers give you the opportunity to do that if there is no improvement.
 

thecheapseats

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...What I would be for though, is a community-endorsed and voted yearly Audiophile Darwin Award for the review with the most, best/worst, and greatest audiophile nonsense...
"Audiophile Darwin Award" - ok - now that is appropriately hilarious... very good...
 

ads_cft222

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It also happens in stores. What if instead of speakers, the guys would "audition" a €$ 1000 power cable, and you would have liked it, while in reality, it makes absolutely no difference...? Many people will part with their money quite easily.
Maybe I don't know. I have seen measurements that indicate that cables matter. However for these price points, I would expect only those who have a lot of discretionary income will consider buying for 1% better performance.

I have also a counter example. If I had only read one review here for my amplifier (roksan attessa) I would be negatively predisposed so maybe it would not be in my shortlist. But when I auditioned my amp I liked it so much that I didn't not have any doubt about purchasing it.
 

fpitas

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fpitas

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voodooless

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I would expect only those who have a lot of discretionary income will consider buying for 1% better performance.
But that is the whole problem. The claims are always about night and day differences, not 1%.

I have also a counter example. If I had only read one review here for my amplifier (roksan attessa) I would be negatively predisposed so maybe it would not be in my shortlist. But when I auditioned my amp I liked it so much that I didn't not have any doubt about purchasing it.
That's not a counter-example, that's just illustrates the problem..
 

fpitas

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BDWoody

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I have seen measurements that indicate that cables matter however for these price points, I would expect only those who have a lot of discretionary income will consider buying for 1% better performance.

It's more like 0% . That's the thing. It will make no difference at all.

Any listening tests showing the superiority of an *expensive* cable vs. zip cord? Not that I've seen.

I don't care how people spend their money, but I do care if people earn their money by misleading the ignorant, whether they are rich or not.

It makes me shake my head when I read the other fora, where some young guy with no money is being told he really needs to get a tube amp and $5k cables. Better start saving, while hating life that you can't hear what those with more money can hear.

It's a pathetic joke, but too many don't understand that when they buy into this crap, they become the punch line.
 
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