Can you really hear the sound details over 20kHz?

[dc655321]

Ok, maybe I should learn of the horrors of cymbal abuse too.

Watch Dave Grohl's drumming when he played for Nirvana - the horror !

But as that thread states, folks (me) could think there is a sharp transient there.

Well, there is nothing wrong with thinking there may be some effect.
The problems arise when evidence does away with intuition, and there is a failure to change one's thinking in light of that evidence...
(Not saying that applies to you)

 

[nimar]

While back someone was recommending a room correction house curve that went from about -10db at 17khz down to -30db at 20kh+ and I thought it was nuts at the time. But the more I think about hearing loss the more sense I see in it. Why waste amp power and stress out your tweeter on frequencies you can’t even hear.

 

[Ingenieur]

Download this keys jiggling sound, and enable/disable a low pass filter at 20kHz, and try to hear if there is less "air" in the reproduction.
https://freesound.org/people/Anton/sounds/334/

According to this paper, keys jiggling have 68% of power above 20 kHz.
http://www.tnt-audio.com/casse/life_above_20khz.pdf

The 68% is misleading
It excludes all the power of harmonics
With them it's likely similar to 0.01% above
-80 dB down

and that small percent is spread out over 30,000 plus Hz
So power density is at noise level

French horn 0.03%
up to over 90 kHz!
0.03% over 70+ kHz
In 1/6 octaves 0.0023% per 1/6 oct
-93 dB from 113, 20 dB
Can that be discerned?

 

[Katji]

Not by human hearing. And apparently audiology is about human hearing (and balance and so on.)

 

[MaxRockbin]

It'd be interesting and useful, even, if members were to put the upper limit of their hearing in their signature.
Way more informative than what DAC you're using.
Me first. 12,500 - also right about where my tinnitus kicks in.

I added a lowpass at 14kHz. Why not let my tweeters relax a little? I cannot hear the diff a/b.

 

[Geert]

It'd be interesting and useful, even, if members were to put the upper limit of their hearing in their signature.
Way more informative than what DAC you're using.
Me first. 12,500 - also right about where my tinnitus kicks in.

Now you made it clear you should never question any statement I make about sound anymore. My upper limit is at least 40kHz, altough there's no equipment that can measure it.

 

[ShiZo]

17.5k

 

[Freeway]

Download this keys jiggling sound, and enable/disable a low pass filter at 20kHz, and try to hear if there is less "air" in the reproduction.
https://freesound.org/people/Anton/sounds/334/

According to this paper, keys jiggling have 68% of power above 20 kHz.
http://www.tnt-audio.com/casse/life_above_20khz.pdf

Maybe that explains why my neighbor's dogs go crazy barking if anyone jiggles keys near their house.

 

[Wes]

besides the methodological problems I noted in post #3, very high frequencies could induce "unhappiness" in amps, or other electronics that might result in perceptible SQ issues

 

[smotty]

Well, I may be the exception to the human hearing range, (and vison Left 20/12 Right 20/15). Because I have to say that I am over 40 and I can hear well over 20khz. Plus, I work with tile saws and many loud power tools without ear plugs most of the time (because I forget to use them). Although I can hear over 20khz no problem, I don't think that I could make out a song if it was played above 22khz. (Maybe if I was younger I could). When I was a kid I could tell if someone turned on the tv on the other side of the house in my bedroom with the door shut. (now I just hear it turn on and off in the same room) I told my parents and they didn't believe I could. Until I told them to turn the tv on and off and I would yell On and Off from the other side of the house when they did. (They were a bit amazed). But even now at 41, I can hear regular mosquitos flying (18-20khz) around with pinpoint accuracy and also those mouse static noise repellant things you plug into the wall ( I couldn't sleep with one of those plugged in my bedroom). Although these new tiger mosquitoes we have now are much smaller and have a higher frequency (20khz+) and are much harder to hear, but I can tell when one is in the room (or a small gnat). That if I cup my hands around the back of my ears (like making giant ears) and direct them forward I can locate them by finding what direction the sound is loudest by turning my head back and forth. Then with a high-power flashlight (a real 5000 lumens preferred) to target them in flight to get your revenge on them little mother suckers before they get a chance to lay 1000 more. Especially sucking my blood might make some super mosquitos, Lol..( but you never know)

 

[smotty]

anyone know the world population distribution of being able to hear above 20kz?
I struggle with 12k and even at that level, there is nothing of interest or adds to music i listen to and from what i can tell i am missing very little in the context of content.

Yeah, your not missing much.. Because most of it just sounds like buzzing or static white noise. Kinda like power station or an old analog Tv AM/FM channel that doesn't come in. But just played at a lot higher sound octave. But one thing you are missing is all of them mosquitoes flying around your head and biting your behind. (Because at 12khz they wouldn't have to be sneaky about it either). Anyone else getting infested with mosquitoes just these past few years? Because we never had them ever (well, rarely but not in the house) but its just gotten really bad. Im gonna start walking around with a full body mosquito net. Or figure out some clothing made with some special fabric they cant bite thru thats not hot and lightweight..

 

[krabapple]

 

[Killingbeans]

When I was a kid I could tell if someone turned on the tv on the other side of the house in my bedroom with the door shut. (now I just hear it turn on and off in the same room) I told my parents and they didn't believe I could. Until I told them to turn the tv on and off and I would yell On and Off from the other side of the house when they did. (They were a bit amazed).

The horizontal scan frequency of an old CRT is below 16kHz. It sits just below my current limit of hearing, and I can just barely detect it if I concentrate, but it drives my fiancée nuts. Any kid with normal hearing can detect it without problem

But even now at 41, I can hear regular mosquitos flying (18-20khz) around with pinpoint accuracy and also those mouse static noise repellant things you plug into the wall ( I couldn't sleep with one of those plugged in my bedroom). Although these new tiger mosquitoes we have now are much smaller and have a higher frequency (20khz+) and are much harder to hear, but I can tell when one is in the room (or a small gnat). That if I cup my hands around the back of my ears (like making giant ears) and direct them forward I can locate them by finding what direction the sound is loudest by turning my head back and forth. Then with a high-power flashlight (a real 5000 lumens preferred) to target them in flight to get your revenge on them little mother suckers before they get a chance to lay 1000 more. Especially sucking my blood might make some super mosquitos, Lol..( but you never know)

The fundamental of mosquito wing noise is below 1kHz for the males and below 600Hz for the females. The harmonics go a lot higher, but also have a lot less energy.

There's no standard for audio based pest repellents. Some (most?) use frequencies well below 20kHz, probably just to give the user some comfort in the product doing "something", although that "something" probably isn't repelling pests.

Sorry for being a party pooper, but I think you'll be sorely disappointed if/when you get a real hearing test. I could be wrong through... but your odds aren't great.

 

[Andysu]

alien 3 1992 THX/TAP six track Dolby Stereo r2 up to 18,000khz

 

[antcollinet]

I am inferring that you are equating file sample rate with hearing frequency range. If thats the case, Sample rate is not related to hearing frequency range. It is the number of samples per second used to encode the analog music signal. Whether that signal is 20hz or 20khz. Please ignore if my assumption is incorrect.

The sample rate defines the maximum frequency that can be encoded in the digital signal (which is half the sample rate)

So to encode frequencies up to 20kHz, you need a sample rate at least 40kHz (Why 44.1 is chosen for CD)

 

[egellings]

I have been listening to music really really long time and I think I can notice the difference between crappy mp3 and good lossless source. But I can never say that the ultrasonic frequencies affects my listening.
There's whole lot of expensive high tech stuff that can extend the frequencies past 20kHz, whether it's a speaker or a DAC/AMP. But personally, I don't think it will affect my listening and it would have less impact as I age more.

I'm not saying "because I can't hear it, it's useless" But I'm just wondering if there's anyone in need for frequencies over 20kHz.
I tested my hearing few month ago and I can't hear anything above 16kHz, so this sad truth tells me extremely high frequencies can't bother me at all.

The designer of the CD format did not seem to think that response above 20kHz was necessary.

 

[pseudoid]

See if you can hear this 13kHz test tone?

That is one annoying signal and they should have used that tone in Gitmo for truth extraction!

 

[Philbo King]

Off topic a bit:
DARPA had a few interesting projects going some years ago.
1 - Beaming audio-modulated ultrasound at people through 2 separate beams. Where the beams crossed, the 2 beams would heterodyne in the air to produce sound 'out of nowhere'. Useful, I suppose, for driving people into psychosis by having voices that follow only them around.

2 - Sonic weapon, consisting of a semi trailer with two 500 hp diesel engines running a high capacity air pump. The air is used to operate a sound modulator coupled to a 20 or 30 foot megaphone. It produces sound roughly 175 dB. Intended, apparently, as siege weapon to bring down stone or masonry structures (bridges, dams, buildings). The subwoofer of your dreams!

These were things I saw years ago; DARPA apparently scrubs stuff off the web periodically.

 

[danadam]

See if you can hear this 13kHz test tone?

That is one annoying signal and they should have used that tone in Gitmo for truth extraction!

It can also be misleading. Beside 13 kHz tone it has 3.4 kHz at about -70 dBFS. In theory someone who cannot hear 13 kHz could still hear something in the video .

 

[pseudoid]

Worse is when people become highly emotional and muddy the waters with invalid arguments or even name-calling.

Fret not @Wes!
Name-calling builds character and it works to your favor each time, especially in the darkness of the internet.
The character that you are building is not that of yours but those who you can't see in the dark of internet!