What is the upgrade path for a D30?

[aoaaron]

Hey, I have my topping D30 and Atom now.

My question was though, and what price point so I get BETTER performance aka say if i I wanted to upgrade?

I'm new to this whole audio stuff and I realise now I really do enjoy it so I'm deliberating over whether I do return my D30 and get a higher end DAC or leave it.

 

[Shadrach]

The Atom is about as good as it gets regarding audibility. You could spend thousands and not get any real improvement in performance. I realise it's hard to believe a small box for around $100 performs in the audible range as well as anything else on the market.
The same can be said regarding the D30.
In brief there is no upgrade path from your current equipment.
You could get improved conections, better looking boxes, maybe even slightly better specifications, but if it sounds any better it's because of what goes on in your brain and not what goes on in the electronics.

 

[daftcombo]

The question to ask is: what are your headphones?

 

[Ron Texas]

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...eview-and-measurements-of-rme-adi-2-dac.2582/

 

[M00ndancer]

Better headphones

 

[Frank Dernie]

I agree with others.You will get no sound quality improvement by changing DAC or headphone amp. If you want better sound quality go somewhere where you can audition lots of headphones.

 

[LTig]

Hey, I have my topping D30 and Atom now.

My question was though, and what price point so I get BETTER performance aka say if i I wanted to upgrade?

I'm new to this whole audio stuff and I realise now I really do enjoy it so I'm deliberating over whether I do return my D30 and get a higher end DAC or leave it.

First of all: just keep your stuff and enjoy it. Do not go to shops and look for other equipment. Do not browse the internet for opinions of other people about your equipment.

Next step would be a highend headphone like the Sennheiser HD800 (the old one, a used one is cheaper than the HD800S and more neutral). I own this model and have not yet listened to some of the current high end models, but reading subjective reviews of these models gave me the opinion that they sound nicer/warmer but less open and less neutral than the old HD800. This is just hearsay though!

Last step could be an RME ADI-2 DAC. See the review on ASR. It could also tame the 6 kHz peak if you think it is a problem (not for my aging ears).

 

[Frank Dernie]

First of all: just keep your stuff and enjoy it. Do not go to shops and look for other equipment. Do not browse the internet for opinions of other people about your equipment.

Next step would be a highend headphone like the Sennheiser HD800 (the old one, a used one is cheaper than the HD800S and more neutral). I own this model and have not yet listened to some of the current high end models, but reading subjective reviews of these models gave me the opinion that they sound nicer/warmer but less open and less neutral than the old HD800. This is just hearsay though!

Last step could be an RME ADI-2 DAC. See the review on ASR. It could also tame the 6 kHz peak if you think it is a problem (not for my aging ears).

I really think it is important to go to a dealer who has demo facilities. I tried a few headphones at my local dealer not knowing the price of any of them. I didn’t know the reputation of most either.
Some I found uncomfortable, most had excessive boomy bass. I mainly listen to classical music and only one pair of headphones had clear unexaggerated bass on a big orchestra and was comfortable. It was by no means the most expensive either.
Recommending something I like to somebody else with different head physiology and a different taste for bass would be unfair however, the OP needs to audition them themselves.

 

[LTig]

I really think it is important to go to a dealer who has demo facilities. I tried a few headphones at my local dealer not knowing the price of any of them. I didn’t know the reputation of most either.
Some I found uncomfortable, most had excessive boomy bass. I mainly listen to classical music and only one pair of headphones had clear unexaggerated bass on a big orchestra and was comfortable. It was by no means the most expensive either.

Of course one has to listen to a headphone before buying one - this is how I came to the HD800. Both neutral sound and wearing comfort were the buying decisions.

Recommending something I like to somebody else with different head physiology and a different taste for bass would be unfair however, the OP needs to audition them themselves.

I just wanted to make clear that investing money into much higher priced headphones will probably not result in higher neutrality. Many headphones today deliver excessiv bass and I would never recommend such a model, since transparancy and neutrality are the reasons why we are in this forum after all. I'm sorry that I did not make this clear.

 

[Fernando]

...I tried a few headphones at my local dealer not knowing the price of any of them. I didn’t know the reputation of most either.
Some I found uncomfortable, most had excessive boomy bass. I mainly listen to classical music and only one pair of headphones had clear unexaggerated bass on a big orchestra and was comfortable. It was by no means the most expensive either...

What headphones were those that you liked?
That is the way of improvement.
Thank you.

 

[maxxevv]

As others said, probably headphones. If the one currently in use is not quite to "ideal".

And the best person to ask on that aspect is probably @solderdude, if you know specifically what you like in a headphone and the music you like listening to.

 

[Soniclife]

most had excessive boomy bass

Many headphones today deliver excessiv bass

Interestingly I hear it the other way, most are thin sounding with peaky higher frequencies. The fr charts I've looked at, with Harmon correction applied, say I'm right on the ones I've compared, but I really don't know if the compensation curve is correct, or if people hear different headphones differently. Either way it suggests forming your own opinion and not going by subjective opinions on the internet.

I did a similar test to Frank recently, a bunch of headphones listened to with zero prior knowledge of what was meant to be good, or how they were meant to sound. FWIW I liked the Audeze lcd2 and 3, and I found the 800s unlistenable. A popular opinion with many people, but plenty disagree strongly.

 

[andreasmaaan]

With the D30 and the Atom you’ve probably crossed beyond the point of diminishing returns and into the range in which audible improvements are not possible (unless you want to add audible noise/distortion).

The D30 is technically further from SOTA than the Atom is FWIW though.

 

[M00ndancer]

Interestingly I hear it the other way, most are thin sounding with peaky higher frequencies. The fr charts I've looked at, with Harmon correction applied, say I'm right on the ones I've compared, but I really don't know if the compensation curve is correct, or if people hear different headphones differently. Either way it suggests forming your own opinion and not going by subjective opinions on the internet.

As a basshead I prefer the bassier cans out there like the MDR-1a as an example with rolled off highs and sub bass, but I still enjoy my neutral T2 IEMs. Right or wrong I have a preference, regardless of the opinions of people around me. Fully aware that I do not listen to the most neutral speakers or headphones.

 

[Ron Texas]

Perhaps we should know what headphones the OP has before speculating on anything. However, I do agree that changes in electronics are usually subtle to inaudible.

 

[Agile_Interest]

I would get better headphones, ModHouse Argon Mk3, Sendy Aiva, Focal Elex, Sennheiser 6XX, Fostex T60rp, ZMF Auteur/Aeolus, Mr. Speakers Ether C Flow 1.1, etc. So the best money you can spend right now is on headphones, once you feel you have enough, and have learned enough about audio, I would get a Massdrop THX AAA 789 and an SMSL D1 (that's $1300 if you buy both on Massdrop), or the 789 and an RME ADI-2 DAC ($1500 I think) these are the best stacks as of right now without spends thousands more.

 

[Frank Dernie]

this is how I came to the HD800. Both neutral sound and wearing comfort were the buying decisions.

The HD800 was amongst those I auditioned. It was the most expensive, but I did not know that at the time. I found it uncomfortable (I don't find many actually comfortable, it is a question of tolerable or not, the HD800s were not) and whilst it sounded pretty good it was not the one which seemed to me to give the most natural instrumental timbres on orchestral music.
Personally I would not recommend it, though I realise it has a huge swate of fans in cyberspace.

 

[Frank Dernie]

What headphones were those that you liked?
That is the way of improvement.
Thank you.

AKG Q701 but I would not recommend headphones I liked to somebody with different taste to mine or different Pinna shape. Headphones vary by more than any other bit of music reproduction kit I know of, and because they sit in close proximity to the listeners head, either over or on the pinna, the acoustic variation can be substantial from one person to the other.
Frankly in many ways there is little point in worrying about DACs when the 'phones people use vary so much IMO.

 

[solderdude]

Nothing is more 'personal' than a headphone. It must suit you mechanically and tonally (preference).
It is THE sound determining factor !
There is only one true way to know if a headphone suits you and that is to audition a few.

Fit and comfort are very important.
'Seal' is important to get good bass. Not all headphones seal well on all heads/ears which can affect bass and lower mids.
Then EQ them so they either sound good to you or use a more scientific approach to EQ.

The Atom certainly is not the limiting factor here, nor is the DAC.

 

[LTig]

The HD800 was amongst those I auditioned. It was the most expensive, but I did not know that at the time. I found it uncomfortable (I don't find many actually comfortable, it is a question of tolerable or not, the HD800s were not) and whilst it sounded pretty good it was not the one which seemed to me to give the most natural instrumental timbres on orchestral music.
Personally I would not recommend it, though I realise it has a huge swate of fans in cyberspace.

Let me tell how I came to the HD800. I owned (and still own) a Sennheiser HD580 I bought in 1994. At that time I also auditioned several headphones and it finally took me one hour of switching between the HD580 and an AKG K500 until I could decide which to take. The AKG was wonderfully open but just had no bass, and in the end I thought that I would be more happy with the Sennheiser - which I was, so the decision was a good one.

Now after some 20 years the known problem (cable connection) came back, and I thought: Lets have a look what a modern headphone sounds today, maybe the AKGs bass has improved over the years. So I went into a shop where I auditioned AKG K701, K712 and finally the brand new AKG-K812. And in fact the sound of all three (especially the 812) was very good. The problem was the headband. The K7xx models had a leather band with small elevations on the head side which almost immediately caused head pain. The headband of the K812 did not suffer from this problem but the K812 was just to heavy for me, eventually also causing head pain.

So I borrowed the K812 and went into a shop which had the HD800 on offer. I also took about one hour to switch between the K812 and the HD800 and although the HD800 was not as comfortable as my old HD580 it was tolerable. Regarding SQ both were almost indistinguishable (for my aging ears), but in the end I heard a tiny bit of upper mid coloration in the K812 which was not present in the HD800 - and the soundstage of the HD800 was a little bit more open. Since the HD800 also was 300 € cheaper the decision was easy and after 4 years I'm still happy with it. It even sounds very good when fed by my smart phone (Samsung S5 neo), it's just loud enough.

As a side note: 3 years ago I inherited a Beyer Dynamic DT990 pro from a late colleague. This is also a very nice sounding headphone, very comfortable to wear, but compared to the HD800 it has a slightly accelerated bass and the highs are more forgiving/smooth. This makes it a better candidate for my smart phone.