Is this what is wrong with this hobby?

[JJB70]

Capable of what, sounding pleasing, OK
But as any serious alternative to a real 5.1 and better multch system, not even close.
You can't make a relatively small line of speakers across the front of the room give the immersive experience of 7.1.4 Atmos system no matter how much magic dsp and phasing games you play.
Or maybe I can sell you a $15,000 6' power cable?

More and more of them can pair with wireless speakers for rear channels and that works well. I am not saying that sound bars are better than a good AV receiver and multi-channel speaker solution, but they do offer excellent sound quality and the assumption that a traditional system would sound better is no longer true as I do think there is now an overlap. For many people the simplicity and ease of set up will far outweigh the negatives and I can understand why.

 

[JJB70]

As for "Modern Living", I'm still stuck trying to figure out why everybody just has to have tattoos.

My top share tip, buy shares in laser treatment tattoo removal specialists and wait.

 

[invaderzim]

As for "Modern Living", I'm still stuck trying to figure out why everybody just has to have tattoos.

Because everyone wants to be unique together.

 

[invaderzim]

This applies to all consumer spending, and a fair bit of pro spending too.<snip>.

As someone that has chased imaginary improvements with expensive capacitors, cables and the sort my feeling is one reason they push things like this so much is because the expectation bias wears off after a short time which leads the customer to more buying. And since they still believe the last upgrade worked, but just isn't good enough anymore, they will try the next magic upgrade.

 

[svart-hvitt]

Because everyone wants to be unique together.

Because people exchanged sign of merit with sign...

 

[Snarfie]

Find this article on this forum quite refreshing https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/genelec-on-audio-science.3110/ if you want to compare any gear of any price. Because I had a shithole of an acoustics room I sold around 15 years ago a expensive High-End set from JK acoustics a dutch High-end brand (bought for around 15.000 Euro in the 80ties) that sounded fabulous in my previous house but totally No Chance in my new house. So around 4 years ago did missed my music. So i found out that room acoustics (instead of expensive gear) together with proper speakers is imo around 80% of the quality you will experience. I started out with first acoustic treatment of my room nothing drastic (some absorption panals) but at least first reflections where more or less eliminated some improvement. Than i used Room correction software an the sound became miracle better or at least as good or even better as the 15.000,- Euro JK set in the first house but now with gear less than a 1.000,- euro new an used gear that is including speakers. Basically it is about a flat frequency response imo an that from the Genelec article. More important after 60 years I have to learn how to listen to music since my room is treated (you never be to old to learn ). It became not more spectacular it is now completely balanced (highs, lows, mids) something I never encounter before for instance listning fatigue is in 90% erased. Listning now to Abby Road from the beatles the Bass op Paul McCartney pops out because the high frequencies are not screwing anymore the lows have a look at my old an new found frequence response here under. Sometimes I listen to the bypass signal because I still can't belief the difference (so without room correction) can tell you the sound is horrible as all those years before.

Long live existing acoustic knowledge an new technology. I want to suggest use it before spending large amount of money on whatever gear.

 

[Sal1950]

As for "Modern Living", I'm still stuck trying to figure out why everybody just has to have tattoos.

Your such a square.

 

[Sal1950]

More and more of them can pair with wireless speakers for rear channels and that works well.

And they have a subwoofer, at what point is it no longer a "soundbar". That's now primarily a 5.1 system with a very wide center speaker. The idea was not to have speakers all over the room for the WAF.
There's the real thing and then there's "something else".
Would you trade your rig for a Sonos speaker, they sound good too?

 

[Killingbeans]

If their reviews start showing that a lot of the crazy high end is stupid and you can get excellent results at a fraction of the price then why would the big players want to advertise anymore?

I remember when I was a kid how the biggest (..or most known?) Danish high end audio retailer published a magazine with articles showing you how to build cheap great sounding speakers using PA drivers. The same retailer now sells $10K AudioQuest power cables

 

[Ron Texas]

The high end market has shrunken for a lot of reasons, not just snake oil. It's not just high end, anything fancier than a sound bar has suffered. Today consumers have other distractions like huge flat panel TV's, smartphones, online gaming and social media. Most find these forms of entertainment more engaging than listening to playback of recorded music at very high quality levels. A lot of other things have changed. In the US people used to buy sedans and now all they want are SUV's and pickups. The mass market cruise industry is a relatively recent phenomenon. How did people live without a Starbucks every morning?

Around here we live in a bright spot where audiophiles have some sense of how to get the most for their money, but there aren't that many of us.

 

[Snarfie]

The high end market has shrunken for a lot of reasons, not just snake oil. It's not just high end, anything fancier than a sound bar has suffered. Today consumers have other distractions like huge flat panel TV's, smartphones, online gaming and social media. Most find these forms of entertainment more engaging than listening to playback of recorded music at very high quality levels. A lot of other things have changed. In the US people used to buy sedans and now all they want are SUV's and pickups. The mass market cruise industry is a relatively recent phenomenon. How did people live without a Starbucks every morning?

Around here we live in a bright spot where audiophiles have some sense of how to get the most for their money, but there aren't that many of us.

Qapla

 

[svart-hvitt]

The high end market has shrunken for a lot of reasons, not just snake oil. It's not just high end, anything fancier than a sound bar has suffered. Today consumers have other distractions like huge flat panel TV's, smartphones, online gaming and social media. Most find these forms of entertainment more engaging than listening to playback of recorded music at very high quality levels. A lot of other things have changed. In the US people used to buy sedans and now all they want are SUV's and pickups. The mass market cruise industry is a relatively recent phenomenon. How did people live without a Starbucks every morning?

Around here we live in a bright spot where audiophiles have some sense of how to get the most for their money, but there aren't that many of us.

The problem with stereo playback has always been a small sweet spot. People want to move around. So why not go for high quality mono anyway?

 

[Killingbeans]

Or a nice omnidirectional/constant directivity hybrid setup?

But yeah, all of my friends that are not engulfed in the hobby has a mono bluetooth box. Nothing wrong with that if you ask me. Music is just background noise to most people.

 

[invaderzim]

I remember when I was a kid how the biggest (..or most known?) Danish high end audio retailer published a magazine with articles showing you how to build cheap great sounding speakers using PA drivers. The same retailer now sells $10K AudioQuest power cables

There is an advantage to only having to sell one set of cables rather than 8,000 Atom headphone amps to make the same amount of money.

 

[Killingbeans]

Absolutely. You can't really blame them for the desperacy of throwing moral out the window and starting peddling hoodoo products when they are struggling to survive. But it's just sad to see an institution I used respect go into undignifying death cramps like that.

 

[JJB70]

And they have a subwoofer, at what point is it no longer a "soundbar". That's now primarily a 5.1 system with a very wide center speaker. The idea was not to have speakers all over the room for the WAF.
There's the real thing and then there's "something else".
Would you trade your rig for a Sonos speaker, they sound good too?

I wouldn't trade my amplifier and speakers for Sonos as I'm not in the market (I am still happy with what I've got). However, should the day come when it dies then I probably will replace it with active speakers. And based on the improvement in sound bars and wireless speakers I can honestly see them fitting my needs and being the more attractive solution when the time comes. Like I say, some of the sound bars with sub-woofers are really very good for listening to music now. Some of the Samsung models are actually pretty impressive without sub-woofers, Samsung seem to be leveraging Harman's speaker expertise to make some very impressive pieces of kit.

 

[andreasmaaan]

Is it just me who thinks Sonos is actually a bit behind some of the leaders in the small/wireless speaker market in terms of sound quality?

(I have to admit though I haven't listened to these products a lot so this is just based on a few short listening impressions.)

 

[cjfrbw]

As for "Modern Living", I'm still stuck trying to figure out why everybody just has to have tattoos.

Nothing says: "Let's get effed up, rock and roll and dirty screw! Live for today. Who cares about a little Hep C?" like a bank of tats. Of course, as lab rats, they are finding some interesting long term immune disorders and even toxicity from the inks. Forebrains are over-rated.

 

[andreasmaaan]

Of course, as lab rats, they are finding some interesting long term immune disorders and even toxicity from the inks.

Do you have a link to the research please?

 

[JJB70]

Is it just me who thinks Sonos is actually a bit behind some of the leaders in the small/wireless speaker market in terms of sound quality?

(I have to admit though I haven't listened to these products a lot so this is just based on a few short listening impressions.)

Weirdly, given that Sonos is almost a generic term for wireless and multi-room speakers I am not sure I know anybody who has bought Sonos. I know people with Samsung, Sony and Yamaha, and Bose and JBL are both pretty ubiquitous, a couple with Canton stuff and even a couple with B&O and those Naim Muso speakers but not Sonos. At the moment the company that seem to be getting sound bars very right seem to be Samsung, some of their sound bars really are properly good and a friend bought a BT speaker which is amazingly good given the image of BT speakers in audiophile circles. It's a big thing and wasn't cheap (£600) but it really is excellent.