Review and Measurements of MARCH audio dac1

[infinitesymphony]

To many false assumptions leading to combative unsupported opinions. Get some knowledge and understanding of a topic before entering into debate.
On this forum outstripping expertise can lead to individuals being seen as foolish. Admin is very tolerant but it is up to members to establish some credibility re their views. Supportable facts help heaps.

Well, hold on now because a.) the assumption @gvl made all the way back in post #11 turned out to be true, and b.) our desire to "get some knowledge" is exactly what lead to this entire debate. Two people--the reviewer and the manufacturer--had shared knowledge of the product's genesis that they did not immediately reveal. They were not obligated to disclose this knowledge but ethically-speaking the optics of this situation turned some heads. Thanks to the manufacturer's clarifications and answers, we are all better-educated now.

To March Audio's credit, as others have said, he didn't have to do that. If I put myself in his shoes, I have to admit it takes guts to go out on a limb and decide the Tone Board is going to be too tough to beat, reach out to the OEM and make an official arrangement, finance a run of the units, and then have to present the results to the ASR forum for critical analysis.

 

[Pillars]

How much do you charge for this fine combo of yours? These precision cut-outs sure look damn sexy...

After the extensive R&D process I could do the low introductory pre-order price of $1,499. Only the finest Benchmade knife precision techniques were used to enhance the end user experience.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Well, hold on now because a.) the assumption @gvl made all the way back in post #11 turned out to be true, and b.) our desire to "get some knowledge" is exactly what lead to this entire debate. Two people--the reviewer and the manufacturer--had shared knowledge of the product's genesis that they did not immediately reveal. They were not obligated to disclose this knowledge but ethically-speaking the optics of this situation turned some heads. Thanks to the manufacturer's clarifications and answers, we are all better-educated now.

To March Audio's credit, as others have said, he didn't have to do that. If I put myself in his shoes, I have to admit it takes guts to go out on a limb and decide the Tone Board is going to be too tough to beat, reach out to the OEM and make an official arrangement, finance a run of the units, and then have to present the results to the ASR forum for critical analysis.

And remember is was March that made Amir aware of the board so that he could test it. Mr. March knew what Amir would do and it wasn't held back. So not as many people would be aware of or know of verified tests of the quality of this board were that not the case. I've one of them from Alan March myself. I could have made my own, but I'm busy in recent months and feel like the nicely done device with a warranty is worth what he is charging for me to plug it in and use it. So did two of my friends.

So if you want what March is offering there it is. If you want to make your own case and use the same components, you can also do that. Without Alan March members or lurkers on this board wouldn't know of either option.

I'm not sure how all of this should have been handled. Everything is open and transparent now. And it occurred to me what Mr. March mentioned earlier. As long as they spell your name right, there is no bad publicity. Alan didn't have that in mind at the time I'm sure.

 

[Wombat]

Well, hold on now because a.) the assumption @gvl made all the way back in post #11 turned out to be true, and b.) our desire to "get some knowledge" is exactly what lead to this entire debate. Two people--the reviewer and the manufacturer--had shared knowledge of the product's genesis that they did not immediately reveal. They were not obligated to disclose this knowledge but ethically-speaking the optics of this situation turned some heads. Thanks to the manufacturer's clarifications and answers, we are all better-educated now.

To March Audio's credit, as others have said, he didn't have to do that. If I put myself in his shoes, I have to admit it takes guts to go out on a limb and decide the Tone Board is going to be too tough to beat, reach out to the OEM and make an official arrangement, finance a run of the units, and then have to present the results to the ASR forum for critical analysis.

What was in the box was none of @gvls business. He carried on as though he had an entitlement to know. Following on were uninformed supporters of his determination to confirm his guess.
@March Audio was browbeaten into telling something he was not required to. Shame.

The introduction of his product is now going to run the gauntlet of those bitchy hearsay forums, a distraction as unwarranted as it is unhelpful to Alan. I wonder which member here can't wait to be first onto their favourite gossip column with the 'scoop'.

 

[infinitesymphony]

What was in the box was none of @gvls business. He carried on as though he had an entitlement to know. Following on were uninformed supporters of his determination to confirm his guess.

Most of us have a desire to know. It's built into the nature of this board.

Someone would have done a tear-down sooner or later. Far better to have it in the open now. No matter what one thinks about the use of the Tone Board in this design, it's still a tier one DAC. That alone separates it from a number of other manufacturers' DACs with unique designs, significantly higher prices, and worse performance.

 

[March Audio]

Well, hold on now because a.) the assumption @gvl made all the way back in post #11 turned out to be true, and b.) our desire to "get some knowledge" is exactly what lead to this entire debate. Two people--the reviewer and the manufacturer--had shared knowledge of the product's genesis that they did not immediately reveal. They were not obligated to disclose this knowledge but ethically-speaking the optics of this situation turned some heads. Thanks to the manufacturer's clarifications and answers, we are all better-educated now.

To March Audio's credit, as others have said, he didn't have to do that. If I put myself in his shoes, I have to admit it takes guts to go out on a limb and decide the Tone Board is going to be too tough to beat, reach out to the OEM and make an official arrangement, finance a run of the units, and then have to present the results to the ASR forum for critical analysis.

I think Wombats thrust was more towards the uninformed commentary about manufacturing costs. The internet experts who have no clue.

 

[Blumlein 88]

It has been awhile. A friend and I developed a very nice speaker some 25 years ago. It used nice components. It was an unusual and good design. We could build them for $600-700. We knew that didn't include labor etc. Someone, who some of you would have heard of became aware of it. Listened to it. Was interested in turning it into a product. Once he understood the cost of the materials etc. he let us know it would probably retail near the $10,000 mark. Might keep it to $8k. He didn't seem to think that would be a big problem as he thought it that good though no sure thing. It never happened. I'm not so sure it equaled other equally expensive speakers at the time. So maybe just as well.

So, that was enlightening in regards to finished speakers at least vs parts cost. So you can DIY things with performance that doesn't make sense for a commercial product. Or you sometimes can. Some of the tech is so advanced now you can't compete in most areas as a DIY person. I've heard before parts cost of a product is perhaps only 5% of retail or 10% maybe. Turned around I would always think about that when you began to see $39 DVD players that while not top notch did work just fine.

 

[stunta]

Somehow I got the initial impression that this was a DAC engineered by Mr. March from the ground up which I thought was kinda cool given how well it measures.

Looking at it as a black box (as in not looking at the implementation), if it measures as good as the Khadas board, you could think of it as effectively the same board in a case even if it were a different board.

What was in the box was none of @gvls business

That statement IMO goes against the spirit of this website given Amir has performed several teardowns. I may be missing some context, but I hope curiosity is not discouraged.

Speaking of curiosity - was there any scientific value in measuring this DAC given that the board used was already measured? Was it to validate that the OEM board performs the same as the retail board?

FWIW, I might have some OCD thing going on with minimalism and this DAC design does appeal to me in a weird way.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Somehow I got the initial impression that this was a DAC engineered by Mr. March from the ground up which I thought was kinda cool given how well it measures.

Looking at it as a black box (as in not looking at the implementation), if it measures as good as the Khadas board, you could think of it as effectively the same board in a case even if it were a different board.



That statement IMO goes against the spirit of this website given Amir has performed several teardowns. I may be missing some context, but I hope curiosity is not discouraged.

Speaking of curiosity - was there any scientific value in measuring this DAC given that the board used was already measured? Was it to validate that the OEM board performs the same as the retail board?

FWIW, I might have some OCD thing going on with minimalism and this DAC design does appeal to me in a weird way.

When I took this DAC to one of my friends he complained about what all it lacked. In terms of features etc. After we used it for the evening, he changed his mind. With no prompting he said, "ok, I get it. It is good this way. I could connect it up, I'm going to be controlling everything via software anyway, and you don't even need it visible if you choose." He had already decided he liked the way it sounded.

 

[gvl]

Mods, is there any reason left to keep this thread open? The smell is already awful. I thought ASR was better than this.

 

[Wombat]

Somehow I got the initial impression that this was a DAC engineered by Mr. March from the ground up which I thought was kinda cool given how well it measures.

Looking at it as a black box (as in not looking at the implementation), if it measures as good as the Khadas board, you could think of it as effectively the same board in a case even if it were a different board.



That statement IMO goes against the spirit of this website given Amir has performed several teardowns. I may be missing some context, but I hope curiosity is not discouraged.

Speaking of curiosity - was there any scientific value in measuring this DAC given that the board used was already measured? Was it to validate that the OEM board performs the same as the retail board?

FWIW, I might have some OCD thing going on with minimalism and this DAC design does appeal to me in a weird way.

If it had ended with the 'no reply' to the question, which was a statement in itself, I would agree but it became righteous and relentless. Poor form.

 

[Krunok]

Somehow I got the initial impression that this was a DAC engineered by Mr. March from the ground up which I thought was kinda cool given how well it measures.

Engineering a good DAC is one thing, finding a manufacturer who would produce it according to the engineered specs is another.

 

[Wombat]

One could ask who manufactured the drivers in many highly regarded loudspeakers. Mostly not the loudspeaker manufacturers.

 

[rajapruk]

@March Audio You have a headphone amp in the plans as well? Will you base it on a 3rd party chip as well?
I am guessing Neurochrome HP-1, in that case, in your case.

 

[March Audio]

@March Audio You have a headphone amp in the plans as well? Will you base it on a 3rd party chip as well?
I am guessing Neurochrome HP-1, in that case, in your case.

aaahhh, a comedian. As I said in a previous post its entirely my design. If you look at the already published measurements its performance is quite different to the neurochrome.

 

[March Audio]

Mods, is there any reason left to keep this thread open? The smell is already awful. I thought ASR was better than this.

Said the durian fruit. Oh the irony.

 

[rajapruk]

aaahhh, a comedian. As I said in a previous post its entirely my design. If you look at the already published measurements its performance is quite different to the neurochrome.

Ok, case closed!

 

[rebbiputzmaker]

One could ask who manufactured the drivers in many highly regarded loudspeakers. Mostly not the loudspeaker manufacturers.

Not really the same thing.

 

[rajapruk]

Mods, is there any reason left to keep this thread open? The smell is already awful. I thought ASR was better than this.

I take it you do not like the tone? Case so, maybe you khad take it up with the board?

 

[March Audio]

Not really the same thing.

Exactly the same. Speaker driver placed in box = no value to some and how many actively advertise what driver (or its source) that they are using.