Hi, thewas.
When listening to some of the ATC speakers, have you heard significant edge diffraction problems? And if so, can you please describe the problems you've heard?
I just like to know what I should be listening for.
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ATC speakers / Monitors
- Thread starter Pearljam5000
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When listening to some of the ATC speakers, have you heard significant edge diffraction problems? And if so, can you please describe the problems you've heard?
I just like to know what I should be listening for.
Put plywood around the speaker to increase the baffle size and compare.
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Or acoustic foam.
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Sound diffraction makes the imaging less precise, here is a good article about it and how to reduce it. https://heissmann-acoustics.de/en/kantendiffraktion-sekundaerschallquellen-treiberanordnun/
By the way I wasn't the one that brought it in this discussion here, I find directivity problems more important and audible.
By the way I wasn't the one that brought it in this discussion here, I find directivity problems more important and audible.
In some gated measurements i have done there were not audible resonance that the non gated showed.
if you dont understand "put plywood' and "increase the baffle size", i don't see what i can do more.
i take 100 $ per hour and 80% at the order if you want i do it for you.
transport and hotel costs are your responsibility
I agree. So it is ok for you to go around flatly telling others “you are wrong” and yet take exception and act all offended to a statement “you aren’t wrong but” reflected back.
I notice you have a very high number of posts as do others who merrily join in the attack on a reputed company - trying to question their integrity, their users and their product quality.
Back to the original OP question at the start of this thread:
I posit that this site is unfortunately dominated by a few highly condescending active members who know a little (enough to be dangerous) about a few measurements but little else real world experience. Perhaps the tone towards heavy disparagement is actually top down and encouraged. The fact that the highly respected Benchmark company also drew significant criticism here after some badly performed test measurements suggests to me a bunch of amateurs posing as leading experts and self appointed amateur authorities on all things audio.
Closed minds will never understand why a very high priced product that “should NOT be popular” (according to their judgement) is actually immensely successful and in the top three in a small niche high-end market application. Closed minds presume that it isn’t them but everybody else that is wrong.
I posit this site attracts a certain style of armchair profile that has more time to say what they think than actual work to do. Likely the ATCs installed in many of the most successful and highest profile studios in the world are in such heavy use that those users have way too many more important things to do than to be found posting here.
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Tag down the hostility. I completely understand the test with the plywood. I just don't have anything at home to use, therefore I simply asked @thewas to describe the edge diffraction problems he heard with the ATC speakers.
Just to add that when you directly compare ATC actives ( we had the 50’s here) to more contemporary designs they are that bit more coloured it isn’t a huge difference but it is there, same would go for the traditional BBc based designs there is always a slight added colouration.
ATc still very much a solid loudspeaker just no longer state of the art,
Keith
ATc still very much a solid loudspeaker just no longer state of the art,
Keith
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That can't be generalised, in a non gated and non smoothed measurement there are a huge peaks and dips due to room influence which can hide fine details, also such a measurement mixes sound from several directions thus can hide effects which appear just in some angles. It would be great if non gated room measurements would show much about the measured perfomance of a loudspeaker, than people wouldn't need to do all the effort and costs like huge (anechoic or non) chambers, outside ground plane measurements and Klippel NFS.
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There is a big difference there, I comment on statements which I find wrong and also say what is wrong there, don't comment on persons like you did "You aren’t wrong but you exhibit a very narrow understanding of acoustic design considerations." although your posts here till now didn't really show a great insight into loudspeaker and acoustics yet.
See also your next unnecessary and off topic sentence:
On which exactly posts did I do so? I, same as others, just comment on the objective qualities of some loudspeakers which I think now everyone agrees while not bad, are not SOTA nowadays.
The rest of your post isn't better either, it seems you cannot object on any objective issues and concentrate on the people instead using the same old boring platitudes like "close minds", "armchair profiles" etc.:
In deed. We all know from some of amirm’s reviews how some quite common offerings which exterior looks good and professional can go in really bad on axis FR, distortion etc. so atc definitely not a bad speaker, but then the criticism above, at least I can say for my part, due to high expectations for such a big name manufacturer who used to be SOTA back then. Ppl expect the once SOTA to keep up in both design and/or in openness about their product, maybe not disclosing full measurement but say, document why they choose one design from another.
Having something not broken and quite good enough to get the job done doesn’t equate to not advancing quickly for the tool, or else we will still be using old Nokia feature phones, driving non synchronised manual transmission cars and with tyres that don’t grip on wet surface.
Typically a potential customer visits, we have ATCs and say 8Cs set up side by side, ( always sited the ATCs in the their ‘least worse’ position)
We listen, discuss, the ATCs are larger, more expensive, yet with limited bass extension , they have no adjustability in the ‘consumer’ range at least.
In listening the 8cs have deep tight bass, the cardioid and constant directivity allows you to hear that bit more into the mix.
ATC justifiably kicked us off because of low sales but when visitors directly compared for themselves…
Keith
We listen, discuss, the ATCs are larger, more expensive, yet with limited bass extension , they have no adjustability in the ‘consumer’ range at least.
In listening the 8cs have deep tight bass, the cardioid and constant directivity allows you to hear that bit more into the mix.
ATC justifiably kicked us off because of low sales but when visitors directly compared for themselves…
Keith
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Sighted, coached and nudged ... yeah, that sounds fair.
Yes that would work , but two more large boxes plus the hoo-haw of a mini-dsp processor to integrate the two, and the result will stink not be as good as the two 8cs.
@Inner Space we are more than happy to make the comparisons completely unsighted, but loudspeakers aren’t like dacs they do sound different even examples with similar measurements.
Keith
Can you show us a picture of your demo room?
Could be better and with better margin for you...
DSJR
Major Contributor
Does it really matter when personal choice applies?
ATC's are still very good at what they do, but they seem to cost up to 50% more in real terms than inflation alone (I put it down to survival in a world where large studios lapping up 200's and 300's aren't around as prolifically as they once were and a far eastern status-symbol led domestic market where price is almost everything) and they're by no means the only ones here (all the 'BBC derived' family of makers are silly priced now too and I think it was Spendor post refinancing ten or so years ago that started this particular family price hike). It seems that above a certain threshold in pricing, the audiophile market starts to take notice of the status-enhancing aspects of a particular product line and this allows profit margins to increase.
I think it's sad the middle market over here has all but collapsed, taken over by used gear which obviously still has merit.
Looks as if Genelec and Neumann have had recent price increases (using the 310 as a kind of reference). They're still good value compared to other domestic speaker fare, so why not just go for those and leave ATC alone now? In the UK, I just look at Dynaudio Confidence, bigger Focals, Majico, Wilson (FFS), bigger PMC and B&W's and chuckle, as active three way ATC's out-perform them all in my opinion and cost less but including amps too. I'd just ask you lot look at the market as a whole and not just a miniscule part of it. How many have heard of D&D away from here, at least in the UK? - Not knocking it at all, far from it, but it'd take me as a total stranger to that brand some convincing they'd see me out and be easily repaired if they needed to be.. One of ATC's UK charms is that once upon a time, you could arrange to take them there late morning, get 'em fixed up if necessary, get a vibe-enhancing factory tour and then bring them back with you the same day.
ATC's are still very good at what they do, but they seem to cost up to 50% more in real terms than inflation alone (I put it down to survival in a world where large studios lapping up 200's and 300's aren't around as prolifically as they once were and a far eastern status-symbol led domestic market where price is almost everything) and they're by no means the only ones here (all the 'BBC derived' family of makers are silly priced now too and I think it was Spendor post refinancing ten or so years ago that started this particular family price hike). It seems that above a certain threshold in pricing, the audiophile market starts to take notice of the status-enhancing aspects of a particular product line and this allows profit margins to increase.
I think it's sad the middle market over here has all but collapsed, taken over by used gear which obviously still has merit.
Looks as if Genelec and Neumann have had recent price increases (using the 310 as a kind of reference). They're still good value compared to other domestic speaker fare, so why not just go for those and leave ATC alone now? In the UK, I just look at Dynaudio Confidence, bigger Focals, Majico, Wilson (FFS), bigger PMC and B&W's and chuckle, as active three way ATC's out-perform them all in my opinion and cost less but including amps too. I'd just ask you lot look at the market as a whole and not just a miniscule part of it. How many have heard of D&D away from here, at least in the UK? - Not knocking it at all, far from it, but it'd take me as a total stranger to that brand some convincing they'd see me out and be easily repaired if they needed to be.. One of ATC's UK charms is that once upon a time, you could arrange to take them there late morning, get 'em fixed up if necessary, get a vibe-enhancing factory tour and then bring them back with you the same day.
