DAC Advice Needed

[NiagaraPete]

Here is my ignorance showing.

Are you saying I could get rid of the node and simply run the Topping D90se into the Denon and use the Denon as the streamer? If thats the case, the nose is getting returned.

Hmm not really, you need a streamer right? A RPI streamer to your Denon will work as well as anything you've tried.

streamer to the Denon via toslink first and setting the Denon to "pure direct" mode first

This is what I would do.

 

[Berwhale]

I already have a cheaper DAC in the form of the Node 2i which I can easily tell the difference between that and the CXN-v2 that I returned.

'easily tell the difference' is meaningless unless you go to quite some effort to make this a proper test. See Amir's video regarding blind testing and listener training:

You will find more discussion of blind testing and level matching by searching ASR, e.g. this thread... https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/abx-blind-test-and-level-matching.26626/

 

[MusicNBeer]

Easily tell the difference between two modern DACs means either 1) one DAC is broken, 2) some kind of tone control is in the chain, or 3) you're fooling yourself with expectation bias and uncontrolled test conditions.

 

[sawacs]

Bypassed the Node and ran direct through the Denon. Sounds pretty good but there is one issue.

The Denon will only output AAC 96 kbps streaming. I also confirmed this with Denon.

 

[sawacs]

'easily tell the difference' is meaningless unless you go to quite some effort to make this a proper test. See Amir's video regarding blind testing and listener training:

You will find more discussion of blind testing and level matching by searching ASR, e.g. this thread... https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/abx-blind-test-and-level-matching.26626/

Good point. Maybe I am just thinking one sounds better than the other.

 

[Peluvius]

Easily tell the difference between two modern DACs means either 1) one DAC is broken, 2) some kind of tone control is in the chain, or 3) you're fooling yourself with expectation bias and uncontrolled test conditions.

The DAC space seems to be fast becoming the new "interconnect magic" space.....?

 

[MusicNBeer]

Also, the node has digital tone controls. Use them. They work well. I've analyzed their affect using a spectrum analyzer and they are implemented well. I saw zero affect on noise or distortion.

Yes they crop level by 1 bit, but they dither the result so the effect is moot.

 

[Jimster480]

I already have a cheaper DAC in the form of the Node 2i which I can easily tell the difference between that and the CXN-v2 that I returned. The Topping D90se is still cheaper than the Cambridge so I figured I would give it a try. Lastly, the reviews on the Topping were really good.

Having a DAC which is garbage, doesn't mean that another DAC that is around the same price is also garbage. This makes no sense. So to waste $800 because of some "reviews" seems irresponsible to say the least.
Obviously if you can afford to just throw away money then go ahead but as others mentioned; the best performance available from your Denon is already available with the internal DAC if you can actually use it by just putting in a TOSLink Cable.

 

[sawacs]

Having a DAC which is garbage, doesn't mean that another DAC that is around the same price is also garbage. This makes no sense. So to waste $800 because of some "reviews" seems irresponsible to say the least.
Obviously if you can afford to just throw away money then go ahead but as others mentioned; the best performance available from your Denon is already available with the internal DAC if you can actually use it by just putting in a TOSLink Cable.

I have hooked up the Toslink cable and bypassed the Node 2i. The DAC on the Denon sounds pretty good but there is one issue. All of the music I stream into the Denon DAC is limited to AAC 96 kbps.

The only way to play hi-res music, according to Denon tech support, is to download the file to a computer or usb drive. If I stream to the Denon, I am limited to AAC 96.

 

[Chrispy]

I have hooked up the Toslink cable and bypassed the Node 2i. The DAC on the Denon sounds pretty good but there is one issue. All of the music I stream into the Denon DAC is limited to AAC 96 kbps.

The only way to play hi-res music, according to Denon tech support, is to download the file to a computer or usb drive. If I stream to the Denon, I am limited to AAC 96.

Is the only way to stream via HEOS? Assume that's the bottleneck rather than DLNA....

 

[sawacs]

Is the only way to stream via HEOS? Assume that's the bottleneck rather than DLNA....

I can stream from cellphone via Google cast, Bluetooth, computer and HEOS but am stuck at aac 96.

I suppose this is the main reason to get a separate DAC so I can stream hi-res music.

 

[Chrispy]

I can stream from cellphone via Google cast, Bluetooth, computer and HEOS but am stuck at aac 96.

I suppose this is the main reason to get a separate DAC so I can stream hi-res music.

I've not had such restriction with older gear from Denon. That's why I'm scratching my head. Only some radio streams would be so restricted, but that was simply the service. Can't imagine why a google cast would be limited to such a bitrate/codec either. Then again I only have the older gear without that restriction?

 

[sailor2005]

People!!! Why are you all complicating this and confusing the OP? The solution is rather simple. Connect the Node with Toslink to the Denon. It WILL go to the highest sampling rate the Denon allows for optical. NO need for DAC in between the Node and Denon. It will use the Denon's DAC. You won't be listening to the Node's DAC even if it were a POS.
And the whole "pure direct mode" thing only matters IF you are using analog inputs to the Denon, in which case the DAC in the source component WILL matter. If NOT using "pure direct", analog input signals will eventually end up thru the Denon's DAC anyway.

 

[sawacs]

Ha! Thanks!
My two brain cells have been walking in circles and one just fell over!

 

[sawacs]

People!!! Why are you all complicating this and confusing the OP? The solution is rather simple. Connect the Node with Toslink to the Denon. It WILL go to the highest sampling rate the Denon allows for optical. NO need for DAC in between the Node and Denon. It will use the Denon's DAC. You won't be listening to the Node's DAC even if it were a POS.
And the whole "pure direct mode" thing only matters IF you are using analog inputs to the Denon, in which case the DAC in the source component WILL matter. If NOT using "pure direct", analog input signals will eventually end up thru the Denon's DAC anyway.

If I am streaming music and using the Denon's DAC, I am limited to AAC 96 kbps and no more. There is an exception. I can play hi-res music using the Denon's DAC if I download the file and play it from a computer drive or usb. This information came directly from Denon tech support

The only way to stream hi-res music is to add a streamer with a built in DAC or a streamer only plus a DAC

 

[HarmonicTHD]

If I am streaming music and using the Denon's DAC, I am limited to AAC 96 kbps and no more. There is an exception. I can play hi-res music using the Denon's DAC if I download the file and play it from a computer drive or usb. This information came directly from Denon tech support

The only way to stream hi-res music is to add a streamer with a built in DAC or a streamer only plus a DAC

Really?

Streamed from Quobuz via UPNP

 

[sawacs]

Really?

Streamed from Quobuz via UPNP

I have to be doing something wrong then

So, the music you are streaming is not physically downloaded to a computer but rather online streaming?

 

[sailor2005]

If I am streaming music and using the Denon's DAC, I am limited to AAC 96 kbps and no more. There is an exception. I can play hi-res music using the Denon's DAC if I download the file and play it from a computer drive or usb. This information came directly from Denon tech support

The only way to stream hi-res music is to add a streamer with a built in DAC or a streamer only plus a DAC

Dude, your streamer (the Bluesound) will output PCM thru the toslink output into the Denon's toslink input. You DO NOT need a streamer plus DAC, and the Denon does NOT need to stream anything!! It's done by the Node!

 

[sawacs]

Dude, your streamer (the Bluesound) will output PCM thru the toslink output into the Denon's toslink input. You DO NOT need a streamer plus DAC, and the Denon does NOT need to stream anything!! It's done by the Node!

I got that. I misunderstood

 

[HarmonicTHD]

I have to be doing something wrong then

So, the music you are streaming is not physically downloaded to a computer but rather online streaming?

Yes from my Quobuz account (online music provider).

And BTW. There is no audible difference between 48khz (24bit) and higher sampling rates anyhow. HiRes is mainly marketing to sell the same music again. This has been investigated, proven and discussed endlessly at this forum. So I wouldn’t worry about it in the first place.