DAC Advice Needed

[Peluvius]

If I have correctly interpreted the information presented in an excellent, pinned thread in the Psychoacoustics forum anything from the green line up may be completely transparent. So even if you can hear a difference it is likely to be absolutely minimal. So why all the excitement about DACs??

 

[HarmonicTHD]

If I have correctly interpreted the information presented in an excellent, pinned thread in the Psychoacoustics forum anything from the green line up may be completely transparent. So even if you can hear a difference it is likely to be absolutely minimal. So why all the excitement about DACs??

View attachment 224521

Correct.

See here.

Thread 'Audibility thresholds of amp and DAC measurements'
https://audiosciencereview.com/foru...-thresholds-of-amp-and-dac-measurements.5734/

You have to understand that people new to the forum as the OP might not be fully aware. I applaud the OP for asking the right questions and at least be open to input (many come here with opinions very much cemented based on long debunked audio myths).

 

[Jimster480]

I have hooked up the Toslink cable and bypassed the Node 2i. The DAC on the Denon sounds pretty good but there is one issue. All of the music I stream into the Denon DAC is limited to AAC 96 kbps.

The only way to play hi-res music, according to Denon tech support, is to download the file to a computer or usb drive. If I stream to the Denon, I am limited to AAC 96.

That is a heos limitation. My heos devices have the same limitation.
However you mentioned you have the other streamer, plug the toslink into that streamer and then into the denon. You can then stream to that device and it will output toslink pcm to the denon and the denon will use the internal DAC which has the best available performance for your device.
All your problems should then be solved

 

[Jimster480]

If I have correctly interpreted the information presented in an excellent, pinned thread in the Psychoacoustics forum anything from the green line up may be completely transparent. So even if you can hear a difference it is likely to be absolutely minimal. So why all the excitement about DACs??

View attachment 224521

That is also based on the lenient threshold. I can tell you that personally I can hear differences between devices above that threshold with well-recorded music and the right pair of headphones and amplifier. However being able to hear the differences in a speaker setup in a room? I'm not entirely sure about that just due to speaker harmonic Distortion and room noise floors.

The higher the cyanide figure the minimal the differences are. Haven't been able to tell a reliable difference though between devices over 105 SINAD on Amirs chart and I have heard quite a few of them and did some critical listening A/B testing.

 

[Peluvius]

That is also based on the lenient threshold. I can tell you that personally I can hear differences between devices above that threshold with well-recorded music and the right pair of headphones and amplifier. However being able to hear the differences in a speaker setup in a room? I'm not entirely sure about that just due to speaker harmonic Distortion and room noise floors.

The higher the cyanide figure the minimal the differences are. Haven't been able to tell a reliable difference though between devices over 105 SINAD on Amirs chart and I have heard quite a few of them and did some critical listening A/B testing.

Are the differences what you would consider relevant? Would you pay money to achieve the difference?

 

[sawacs]

I appreciate everyone responses and advice regarding my DAC questions. After reading through everything I have realized I have a lot to learn.

The internal Denon DAC sounds pretty good and after setting everything up with the toslink cable, I find it hard to complain.

However, I would love to know why the Cambridge CXN-V2 sounded so much better with more punch to the music than the Denon DAC has. Maybe it is a mystery that will never be solved.

The Topping D90se is out for delivery today. I am not sure if I am going to try it out or just send it back.

If I wanted to use the Denon DAC, what streamer would you recommend? I could simply keep the Node 2i or return that and go with something else.

Again, thanks for all of the advice!

Sawacs

 

[Chrispy]

I appreciate everyone responses and advice regarding my DAC questions. After reading through everything I have realized I have a lot to learn.

The internal Denon DAC sounds pretty good and after setting everything up with the toslink cable, I find it hard to complain.

However, I would love to know why the Cambridge CXN-V2 sounded so much better with more punch to the music than the Denon DAC has. Maybe it is a mystery that will never be solved.

The Topping D90se is out for delivery today. I am not sure if I am going to try it out or just send it back.

If I wanted to use the Denon DAC, what streamer would you recommend? I could simply keep the Node 2i or return that and go with something else.

Again, thanks for all of the advice!

Sawacs

Likely depends on how you compared. Could be simply a level difference. Hard to know.

 

[sawacs]

Funny story..

D90se arrived this afternoon and I could not stand it. I set the unit up and started playing music. Ten minutes into the session, the optical port on the unit failed.

I am going to consider this a sign and send the unit back for a refund.

Still debating on sending the Node back as well.

Cheers!

Sawacs

 

[Jimster480]

Are the differences what you would consider relevant? Would you pay money to achieve the difference?

Yes depending on what device to what device.
For the last 5 years I have had the original DX7 which has 108 SINAD + THX789 Amp (since 2019, before O2 Custom & A30) ... I tested a bunch of stuff after this and never found any meaningful difference. Even if there were a few times (especially now in owning a couple newer products) that I think that the newer DAC"sounds better" (in some specific song) I cannot reliably pinpoint the difference, or it is so small that it might be due to filters.
I didn't feel the need to upgrade my DX7 until I stumbled on MQA files on Tidal. I had purchased a cheap EX5 for a second desk and experienced some MQA in some well recorded CDs and I decided I would buy an MQA compatible DAC for my main stack to replace the DX7.
When playing non MQA tracks; I Couldn't tell any difference between the DX7 and the EX5. Now the EX5 is on my second desk and I have a D70S & a SU-8S on my main desk.... still deciding which one to keep since I ended up with both through some Ebay Bids.

 

[Jimster480]

Funny story..

D90se arrived this afternoon and I could not stand it. I set the unit up and started playing music. Ten minutes into the session, the optical port on the unit failed.

I am going to consider this a sign and send the unit back for a refund.

Still debating on sending the Node back as well.

Cheers!

Sawacs

Could not stand it? What do you mean?

 

[sawacs]

Could not stand it? What do you mean?

Means I took the D90se out of the box and tried it out

 

[Plod990]

Means I took the D90se out of the box and tried it out

And it had no feet to stand on?

 

[Jimster480]

Means I took the D90se out of the box and tried it out

That doesn't explain much sir

 

[Ryeno]

I appreciate everyone responses and advice regarding my DAC questions. After reading through everything I have realized I have a lot to learn.

The internal Denon DAC sounds pretty good and after setting everything up with the toslink cable, I find it hard to complain.

However, I would love to know why the Cambridge CXN-V2 sounded so much better with more punch to the music than the Denon DAC has. Maybe it is a mystery that will never be solved.

The Topping D90se is out for delivery today. I am not sure if I am going to try it out or just send it back.

If I wanted to use the Denon DAC, what streamer would you recommend? I could simply keep the Node 2i or return that and go with something else.

Again, thanks for all of the advice!

Sawacs

To use an external DAC, you must bypass the receiver and go straight to the Emotiva XPA-3. Your receiver isn't high-end enough so it doesn't have external inputs which bypass the internal preamp.