Blizzard's new Super Stream

[bibo01]

Mike,

Does Superstream Pro have the same PS of Superstream?

Are you still going ahead with measurement tests? When?

 

[Mivera]

No it will take different voltages. Yes I'm waiting until I get all of the boards for the Pro interface. Plus a few different DAC prototypes. It's an expensive machine to have sit around waiting.

 

[Geardaddy]

Just on button, extremely nicely made
Keith

Keith, I have mine now too running into the PD2. Beautifully fabricated and sounds great. I am using it as a NAA (Roon/HQP upsampling to DSD256). I have not tried Roon direct yet due to technical headaches which appear to be Apple related. I should be getting the Phison amp in the next week or so.

 

[Mivera]

Now you should compare HQP/Superstream to the IMac connected direct to the PD2 like in the 6 moon review and let us know your thoughts.

The networking issue is due to trying to use your IMac as a dumb NAS. Roon requires a samba server connection to interface to files in remote locations. Every NAS on the planet works flawless as a Samba server. This is the #1 way people share files from NAS's. Same with file sharing with Windows. Since Samba was created by Microsoft it works flawless as well. However Apple has their own file sharing protocol called Apple File Protocol or AFP. OSX also shares folders over Samba or SMB as well, but they go out of their way to make it buggy because they prefer their clients stay in an all Apple world. They would rather have people buy all Apple products and use AFP instead. Roon supported AFP at first, but it was so buggy they decided to ditch it.

The whole point of the Superstream is so you can avoid using a general purpose computer in your audio system. So the 1# recommended way to store files is a simple NAS. #2 would be a router USB shareport.

Using a full blown PC as a file server will also work as well if you simply don't want to buy an inexpensive NAS. With Windows it works without a hitch, however with OSX there is some 3rd party samba server software I'm going to test drive. If it works good I'll mention it in the manual we are working on as the recommended way to use a MAC as a dumb file server.

 

[ceedee]

Now you should compare HQP/Superstream to the IMac connected direct to the PD2 like in the 6 moon review and let us know your thoughts.

Are you talking about comparing sound? Would the Superstream sound different than an iMac connected to the same DAC?

 

[Mivera]

Yes for several reasons. 1 is he's running HQplayer upsampling all PCM to quad DSD. With the IMac his DAC is limited to DSD 128 over DoP. For 2 it's running a dedicated for audio Linux OS which is much better than OSX or Windows which were made to run 1000's of tasks. And for 3 the hardware is much better, with a much cleaner power supply.


But keep in mind the PD2 he is using has the best USB interface I've ever seen. It has both galvanic isolation and reclocking to eliminate noise from the connected computer. Last time I had a pd2 in my house I was hard pressed to tell my computers apart with it when running the same OS/software. However I didn't have a Superstream yet at the time.

I'll be getting a PD2 on Monday so I'll try again.

 

[Geardaddy]

Now you should compare HQP/Superstream to the IMac connected direct to the PD2 like in the 6 moon review and let us know your thoughts.

The networking issue is due to trying to use your IMac as a dumb NAS. Roon requires a samba server connection to interface to files in remote locations. Every NAS on the planet works flawless as a Samba server. This is the #1 way people share files from NAS's. Same with file sharing with Windows. Since Samba was created by Microsoft it works flawless as well. However Apple has their own file sharing protocol called Apple File Protocol or AFP. OSX also shares folders over Samba or SMB as well, but they go out of their way to make it buggy because they prefer their clients stay in an all Apple world. They would rather have people buy all Apple products and use AFP instead. Roon supported AFP at first, but it was so buggy they decided to ditch it.

The whole point of the Superstream is so you can avoid using a general purpose computer in your audio system. So the 1# recommended way to store files is a simple NAS. #2 would be a router USB shareport.

Using a full blown PC as a file server will also work as well if you simply don't want to buy an inexpensive NAS. With Windows it works without a hitch, however with OSX there is some 3rd party samba server software I'm going to test drive. If it works good I'll mention it in the manual we are working on as the recommended way to use a MAC as a dumb file server.

On would hope that the PD2 would be more impervious than most dacs to a "server" due to Sonny's engineering chops. I could pull out my Macbook Air and see how it sounds.

I am sure Minimserver or something like it could be used to aerosolize files if Roon direct is indeed better than HQP/Roon.

 

[lateboomer]

Geardaddy, I posted the same question at CA. Since you are able to upsample to dsd256, the more substantial comparison with Roon direct with Superstream is to run Roon direct with dsd256 file. May be Mike can advice how to do offsite upsample to dsd256 using Hqplayer for one music file. Then run Roon direct with this dsd256 file to compare with NAA setup.

 

[Mivera]

On would hope that the PD2 would be more impervious than most dacs to a "server" due to Sonny's engineering chops. I could pull out my Macbook Air and see how it sounds.

I am sure Minimserver or something like it could be used to aerosolize files if Roon direct is indeed better than HQP/Roon.

When you use it in roonbridge mode as a dumb end point which you've already done, it's still much better than DLNA like with mimiserver. I just find running the Roon core on the Superstream has an edge. Richer and more natural. Native DSD sounds much better on Roondirect than HQplayer/NAA mode.

Once you get over 24/192 PCM, I think the Superstream on its own is best in Roondirect mode paired with a dumb NAS. However with Redbook and especially Redbook from tidal on your particular DAC, HQplayer does wonders.

What needs to be clear about your setup is your DAC has a 1bit DSD bypass mode. Very few DAC's have this. If your DAC doesn't have this mode, a Superstream on its own running Roon will likely be superior for all formats/sample rates.

 

[Mivera]

Geardaddy, I posted the same question at CA. Since you are able to upsample to dsd256, the more substantial comparison with Roon direct with Superstream is to run Roon direct with dsd256 file. May be Mike can advice how to do offsite upsample to dsd256 using Hqplayer for one music file. Then run Roon direct with this dsd256 file to compare with NAA setup.

I have native DSD 256 albums and I find they are hands down better on Roon direct. Same goes with all native DSD files.

Just a simple NAS paired with the Superstream gets the best results. No other computers in the system.

 

[ceedee]

Yes for several reasons. 1 is he's running HQplayer upsampling all PCM to quad DSD. With the IMac his DAC is limited to DSD 128 over DoP. For 2 it's running a dedicated for audio Linux OS which is much better than OSX or Windows which were made to run 1000's of tasks. And for 3 the hardware is much better, with a much cleaner power supply.

Thanks for the reply. I can definitely understand how a better power supply could measurably lower noise. However, I'm skeptical of reasons 1 and 2. Why would a human hear a difference between quad DSD and DSD 128? Both upsampling should be transparent if done correctly, right?

As for reason 2, I'd like to see some data that support this claim. Do you have any measurements that show that we can't get perfect digital audio output from a standard computer/operating system?

I will say that the Superstream looks very well-built and suitable for the purpose, if someone is in the market for a streaming device.

 

[lateboomer]

I have native DSD 256 albums and I find they are hands down better on Roon direct. Same goes with all native DSD files.

Just a simple NAS paired with the Superstream gets the best results. No other computers in the system.

But did you run the same native DSD256 through Hqplayer without any upsampling to Superstream NAA to compare with Roon direct? I just want to be certain.

 

[Mivera]

Thanks for the reply. I can definitely understand how a better power supply could measurably lower noise. However, I'm skeptical of reasons 1 and 2. Why would a human hear a difference between quad DSD and DSD 128? Both upsampling should be transparent if done correctly, right?

As for reason 2, I'd like to see some data that support this claim. Do you have any measurements that show that we can't get perfect digital audio output from a standard computer/operating system?

I will say that the Superstream looks very well-built and suitable for the purpose, if someone is in the market for a streaming device.

DSD 256 takes the noise further out of the audio band. Some still gets into the audio band @ 128. Another thing is the best modulator in Hqplayer only runs at 256 or higher. Not only that his DAC is only compatible with native DSD on Linux. OSX uses DoP which is a workaround that sends DSD over PCM. However it takes additional processing on both the computer end, and the USB interface processor to compress and decompress. Also double the bandwidth of native DSD. In theory it's lossless, but in reality the XMOS chip is working harder to decode the DoP and it's clearly audible.

If a standard computer was the holy grail for an audio transport, improving the USB interface in the DAC would have no benefit. Look at Amir's measurements of the Berkeley USB interface vs the Audiophillio and tell me where those spikes came from with the Audiophillio if computer noise is a non issue?

http://audiosciencereview.com/forum...performance-pc-server-interfaces-async-usb.8/


And don't forget this:

http://audiosciencereview.com/forum...puter-activity-can-impact-dac-performance.22/

When the OS is running in command line with no GUI, and nothing else but the bare essentials to run the Roon core, do you think it has as much CPU activity as a general purpose OS running a GUI and 1000 other tasks?

I will be sharing a high resolution video of measuring the Superstream and Superstream pro with the worlds finest audio measurement machine the aPX-555. We feel that the video is essential because without video who knows if the measurement data is even real? Anyone can post anything on the internet. We will give a run down of the aPX-555 and all of it's features, show all of the physical connections, and everyone can watch the results come on the screen in real time as the measurements are taken. IMO this is the only reasonable way to prove something is better objectively to the public over the internet. I guess if this isn't good enough folks are gonna need to fall back on their ears.

 

[Mivera]

But did you run the same native DSD256 through Hqplayer without any upsampling to Superstream NAA to compare with Roon direct? I just want to be certain.

Yes when Hqplayer is set to not touch the files, no upsampling, no modulators, set to "None"" in both boxes, all audio sounds better Roon direct in every format. This wasn't the case before the latest Roon build 147 for Linux, but it is now.

I always have DirectSDM checked in Hqplayer. When DirectSDM is checked Hqplayer never touches native DSD files anyways.

 

[lateboomer]

Jesus, why this hobby is so complicated and finicky. Thank you Mike for the reply.

 

[dallasjustice]

"He who indulges empty fears earns himself real fears." Seneca

 

[ceedee]

However it takes additional processing on both the computer end, and the USB interface processor to compress and decompress. Also double the bandwidth of native DSD. In theory it's lossless, but in reality the XMOS chip is working harder to decode the DoP and it's clearly audible.

Could you post a clip of what this sounds like? If clearly audible that shouldn't be hard. I'd like to hear what you're talking about.

If a standard computer was the holy grail for an audio transport, improving the USB interface in the DAC would have no benefit.

Obviously the USB interface design matters to a point. If well-designed we hope it isn't picking up noise from the USB connection. If it is, I'd rather get a new DAC that doesn't care whether the bits are coming from a general-purpose computer or an audiophile one.

When the OS is running in command line with no GUI, and nothing else but the base essentials to run the Roon core, do you think it has as much CPU activity as a general purpose OS running a GUI and 1000 other tasks?

No, I doubt it does have as much CPU activity. But, unless the Mac is planting those 1000 other tasks right in the middle of my soundstage, who cares?

We will give a run down of the aPX-555 and all of it's features, show all of the physical connections, and everyone can watch the results come on the screen in real time as the measurements are taken.

Sounds like a good way to handle it.

 

[Mivera]

Discussing objective data without the video is pointless. We will have the objective end covered in the video. The functionallity and subjective impressions can be handled by our clients. Any other questions about setup I can answer now.

 

[Mivera]

"He who indulges empty fears earns himself real fears." Seneca

Eliminating fear is the whole point of this product. Press the power button and listen to music. There's nothing you can tweak, so you will have no choice but to listen to the music. Upgrading the fiber optic cables won't make a bit of difference. As long as they pass the data through, it's as good as it will get. So $12.53 will get you the best of the best when it comes to cables.

http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=7820

 

[Geardaddy]

Geardaddy, I posted the same question at CA. Since you are able to upsample to dsd256, the more substantial comparison with Roon direct with Superstream is to run Roon direct with dsd256 file. May be Mike can advice how to do offsite upsample to dsd256 using Hqplayer for one music file. Then run Roon direct with this dsd256 file to compare with NAA setup.

Latebloomer, I have quite a few DSD files but very little 256. I will try just for the same of experimentation though.