• Welcome to ASR. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

XLR to RCA But Different Kind of Question

I emailed Phil and this is his reply.

Here is the pinout of the XLR
Pin1: ground >> RCA ground
Pin2: signal+ >> RCA signal
Pin3: signal- >> RCA not used (leave open).

So am I correct in understanding that pin 3 is left disconnected(floating)?

And this can be on either side of the cable...?
 
I emailed Phil and this is his reply.

Here is the pinout of the XLR
Pin1: ground >> RCA ground
Pin2: signal+ >> RCA signal
Pin3: signal- >> RCA not used (leave open).

So am I correct in understanding that pin 3 is left disconnected(floating)?

And this can be on either side of the cable...?
Yes, that's right. As long as XLR Pin 3 doesn't connect to anything electrically, it doesn't matter which end is left floating. It is more usual for it to be left unconnected at the XLR end, as then it's most obvious what's happened. If you disconnect it at the RCA end, then anyone looking at the XLR may think it's connected. Electrically, they're the same.

S.
 
No.....I don't read it that way.
Pin 3 inside the Marchand unit should not be left disconnected under any circumstances. I'm sure Phil has it connected in some fashion. Either to an active line driver or a simple resistor to ground.

Dave Reite.
We are taking about the XLR to RCA cable.
 
No.....I don't read it that way.
Pin 3 inside the Marchand unit should not be left disconnected under any circumstances. I'm sure Phil has it connected in some fashion. Either to an active line driver or a simple resistor to ground.

Dave Reite.
That's how input looks at my XM9.

Input.PNG


To use it for balanced input you just cut the F trace and connect cold (-) to R25 corresponding input.
 
"standardization", unfortunately, is relative. ;)
 
No.....I don't read it that way.
Pin 3 inside the Marchand unit should not be left disconnected under any circumstances. I'm sure Phil has it connected in some fashion. Either to an active line driver or a simple resistor to ground.
Phil wrote:
Pin3: signal- >> RCA not used (leave open)
Leave open means disconnected, at least to me.
 
Phil wrote:
Pin3: signal- >> RCA not used (leave open)
Leave open means disconnected, at least to me.
And we're still talking about the cable here yeh, just to confirm?
 
I'm late to the game also but while I thought an XLR to RCA cable would work best on my situation, it's starting to sound like it may cause more issues, if not using pin3 the output power is cut in half, discrete or active matters ECT..

I am receiving my Schitt Saga 2 today and while I'll be using single ended for now I was going to try to get an XLR to RCA cable but am I correct in assuming after reading this thread that unless you can ground pins 2 and 3 it's simple a waste of time?

I'll have a Fosi Audio ZD3 going to the Saga 2 which does have XLR outputs just not inputs. While I would have liked to just get the Kara F, it's simply to much, but does have 2 XLR Inputs, hence the much higher price (among other things). Pet Schitt you should only do single ended to single ended and using any adapter or XLR cable voids your warranty. Not that it won't work but I understand Schitt's stance.

The main reason I wanted to use XLR is the higher output power but if that's cut in half which is equal to the single ended output I'm not gaining anything. To my ears the XLR outputs sound better but part of that could be due to the added output power Having a preamp with gain control seems like RCA to RCA would seem to make up for any output power loss on the XLR outputs and since the Saga 2 has balanced outputs I can still use my ZA3 monoblocks so power won't be a real issue. Unless there is something inherently "better" with the XLR output stage that isn't power related vs the RCA output stage on the ZD3 DAC. I did replace the 2 XLR op amps in my ZD3 to a Burson V7 Vivid's so I guess I'll have a spare one using the single ended RCA's single it only requires changing one op amp instead of 2. Below is from the FAQ. Please let me know if I'm mistaken by my decision that XLR to RCA won't improve anything except potential headaches at best or damaging my gear at worst if using an XLR to RCA cable with pin 2 and 3 connected or be safe and lose half the Vrms output on the XLR outputs on my DAC by using a cable with pin 3 not connected on the XLR cable. Thanks.


And it’s fully discrete?
Yep! Chapter here: LINK.

And real differential? Balanced?
Absolutely. And yes, absolutely real, no funny stuff. As you may have expected from the previous questions, here’s the chapter we wrote on what balanced, differential means: LINK.

Well, why do you have balanced outputs but no balanced inputs?
Finally a great question. Here’s the deal: balanced inputs for inexpensive gear are, well, kinda a canard. As in, the good inexpensive sources are usually single-ended anyway, so your inputs are typically gonna be single-ended. However, we make a bunch of amps (Gjallarhorn, Aegir 2, Vidar 2) that can use balanced inputs to create a mono amp with much more power. So balanced out is important. All of that means that single-ended in, balanced or single-ended out makes a lot of sense. So that’s what Saga 2 gets.
 
Last edited:
The main reason I wanted to use XLR is the higher output power but if that's cut in half which is equal to the single ended output I'm not gaining anything. To my ears the XLR outputs sound better but part of that could be due to the added output power Having a preamp with gain control seems like RCA to RCA would seem to make up for any output power loss on the XLR outputs and since the Saga 2 has balanced outputs I can still use my ZA3 monoblocks so power won't be a real issue. Unless there is something inherently "better" with the XLR output stage that isn't power related vs the RCA output stage on the ZD3 DAC. I did replace the 2 XLR op amps in my ZD3 to a Burson V7 Vivid's so I guess I'll have a spare one using the single ended RCA's single it only requires changing one op amp instead of 2. Below is from the FAQ. Please let me know if I'm mistaken by my decision that XLR to RCA won't improve anything except potential headaches at best or damaging my gear at worst if using an XLR to RCA cable with pin 2 and 3 connected or be safe and lose half the Vrms output on the XLR outputs on my DAC by using a cable with pin 3 not connected on the XLR cable. Thanks.
Welcome to ASR!

From Amir's measurements the Fosi ZA3 has a max gain of 25.7 dB (= 19.3 ×), and a max output power of 180 W into 4 ohms. That means it only requires 1.4 Vrms input to reach full power.

Therefore, regardless of using RCA (nominal 2.0 V) or XLR (nominal 4.0 V), you should have no problem getting full output from the ZA3, even with the Saga 2 at low (1 ×) gain. Unless a device is specifically designed for it, you should not use an XLR to RCA adapter cable at the output. RCA to XLR adapter cable for input, however, is generally OK for all devices. So the most appropriate connection for your setup, IMHO, would be:
ZD3 RCA out →Saga 2 RCA in​
Saga 2 XLR out → ZA3 XLR in​

index.php
 
Always be sure to check the documentation of the device on the balanced side of the cable.

Nearly everyone here is saying that XLR to RCA is fine, which is true in most cases. But some devices, such as some DACs from TOPPING, are extremely specific that you should never connect the XLR output to an unbalanced input.
 
Always be sure to check the documentation of the device on the balanced side of the cable.

Nearly everyone here is saying that XLR to RCA is fine, which is true in most cases. But some devices, such as some DACs from TOPPING, are extremely specific that you should never connect the XLR output to an unbalanced input.
I wonder why that is. I'm inclined to think it's to avoid just the sort of questions this thread has raised. There's no reason not to connect and XLR output to an unbalanced input provided one knows what sort of balanced output. I'm constantly amazed just how much confusion this topic creates.

S.
 
I wonder why that is. I'm inclined to think it's to avoid just the sort of questions this thread has raised. There's no reason not to connect and XLR output to an unbalanced input provided one knows what sort of balanced output. I'm constantly amazed just how much confusion this topic creates.

S.
The operative part there is "provided one knows what sort of balanced output" - the confusion is that many people don't know what sort of balanced output they have, or why it makes a difference to how you would connect them.
 
The operative part there is "provided one knows what sort of balanced output" - the confusion is that many people don't know what sort of balanced output they have, or why it makes a difference to how you would connect them.
Still, there are better ways to handle it. Why not tell people what sort of balanced output they have? Isn't it the manufacturer's responsibility?

Compare to this:

1748955126651.png
 
I wonder why that is. I'm inclined to think it's to avoid just the sort of questions this thread has raised. There's no reason not to connect and XLR output to an unbalanced input provided one knows what sort of balanced output. I'm constantly amazed just how much confusion this topic creates.
S.
Because many XLR output pins are not happy being tied to ground.
 
Because many XLR output pins are not happy being tied to ground.
So don't connect pin 3 to ground! Seriously, there's absolutely no reason why a manufacturer shouldn't specify in the manual how to unbalance the XLR output. It's really trivial, yet causes endless confusion, as evidenced by how many times the same question has been asked on just this forum.

S.
 
Because many XLR output pins are not happy being tied to ground.
Actually, active output pins are almost never happy being shorted to ground.
 
Actually, active output pins are almost never happy being shorted to ground.
Again, that depends on the active output configuration. Fully floating transformer coupled outputs must have one side (generally pin 3) connected to ground, or there's no signal except for some HF leakage. Cross-coupled servoed outputs are normally happy to have one side connected to ground, although I suppose a badly designed on might not be. Equally, centre-tapped transformer coupled or now normal electronically balanced outputs shouldn't have one side grounded.

As to impedance-balanced outputs...

As I said above, it's up to the manufacturer to specify their preferred way of unbalancing the balanced output.

S.
 
As I said above, it's up to the manufacturer to specify their preferred way of unbalancing the balanced output.
And when the manufacture says "don't do it", then don't do it. :cool:

I found the thread on the TOPPING D10 Balanced (D10B) where John Yang was emphatic that the device was not designed for Balanced to Unbalanced — not simply because they didn't want to publicize the pinout and take liability for people getting it wrong (though that clearly was also part of their consideration).

I do not intend to open up the debate on whether he is right, wrong, or just fear mongering. But for those curious, here are a few of the comments from a TOPPING engineer regarding the manufacture's specification: #484 and #514
 
Back
Top Bottom