Wireless audio transmitters?

[Koeitje]

I was wondering if anyone here has experience with wireless audio transmitters. I'll be moving into a new place in a couple of months and I'm looking into connecting my two (active) surround loudspeakers wirelessly instead of messing around with cables. It doesn't have to be ultra high performance, if its just decent its good enough for my application. Plus its just for my surround speakers, my fronts will still be wired. I'm mainly worried about high noise, high latency and low output voltage.

Does anyone have experience with this for example:

Buying an Audio Anywhere 630 audio transmitter? | Marmitek

Audio Anywhere 630 | Wireless audio transmitter and receiver ✓ Connect your audio source wirelessly ✓ Buy now!

marmitek.com

Or possibly some other products.

 

[Paffi]

Which country you're living in? In Germany the Nubert TRX System would be a solution.

 

[Petrushka]

I was wondering if anyone here has experience with wireless audio transmitters. I'll be moving into a new place in a couple of months and I'm looking into connecting my two (active) surround loudspeakers wirelessly instead of messing around with cables. It doesn't have to be ultra high performance, if its just decent its good enough for my application. Plus its just for my surround speakers, my fronts will still be wired. I'm mainly worried about high noise, high latency and low output voltage.

Does anyone have experience with this for example:

Buying an Audio Anywhere 630 audio transmitter? | Marmitek

Audio Anywhere 630 | Wireless audio transmitter and receiver ✓ Connect your audio source wirelessly ✓ Buy now!

marmitek.com

Or possibly some other products.

Latency is a huge problem if all speakers are not controlled by a system that understands sync issues.

This is why Sonos is popular. There are alternatives, but not as easy to implement.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Or possibly some other products.

The problem with all of these devices, as far as I know, is that they transmit/receive only 2 channels and that there is no way to synch them with other channels that are connected by hard-wire or other systems.

Which country you're living in? In Germany the Nubert TRX System would be a solution.

Yup. "The low processing delay of just 20 milliseconds recommends the trX even for such time-critical applications,...." You need to compensate for that as well as the ensuing D/A.

 

[JeremyFife]

Hi, this isn't something I'm familiar with - but can you give some more details on your current system: what are you using as a source, and what are your surrounds that you want to connect? Some extra information might open out the options

 

[Vincent Kars]

You might have a look at SVS Soundpath. They claim a 14 ms latency.
Maybe life sound offers solutions. Shure claims 3 ms is needed.
Sennheise < 4 ms https://www.sennheiser.com/en-us/ca.../xsw-d-xlr-base-set/xsw-d-xlr-base-set-508491

 

[Koeitje]

Hi, this isn't something I'm familiar with - but can you give some more details on your current system: what are you using as a source, and what are your surrounds that you want to connect? Some extra information might open out the options

Just a simple surround receiver with pre-outs. My rear speakers are active, my front aren't (I use NC400 mono blocks for them). Just want to avoid an XLR cable running across the room.

But just as I thought, latency is a huge issue.

You might have a look at SVS Soundpath. They claim a 14 ms latency.
Maybe life sound offers solutions. Shure claims 3 ms is needed.
Sennheise < 4 ms https://www.sennheiser.com/en-us/ca.../xsw-d-xlr-base-set/xsw-d-xlr-base-set-508491

Costs more than my speakers .

The problem with all of these devices, as far as I know, is that they transmit/receive only 2 channels and that there is no way to synch them with other channels that are connected by hard-wire or other systems.

2 channel is no issue, its just a left and right surround speaker. My setup is only 4 speakers (5.1 with a phantom center). Latency looks to be the main issue.

Latency is a huge problem if all speakers are not controlled by a system that understands sync issues.

This is why Sonos is popular. There are alternatives, but not as easy to implement.

I wouldn't mind a Sonos setup if I could use my own speakers as front speakers + phantom center. Sonos is fine for the surrounds, don't need that high quality from that just the sound effects.

 

[Waxx]

There are systems that can do that (Dante for example) but these are very expensive. The big issue here is sync of all channels. There are speakers like the Neumann KH 120 II AES67 that can work with Dante, but your source also must do that, and Dante still recommend LAN cabling to all devices (The Neumann has only AES67 lan input, no wifi).

Sonos will be the cheapest system that can do so, and altough the amp systems are not that bad, it's not top of the game (but you don't mind). So i would look at a Sonos system with better speakers (speakers are optional). Amps and streamer are needed to make it work wireless but you can connect any speaker that fits the amps.

But for the rest, i don't really know a system that works well in that scenario. It coud be a very usefull thing, a universal wireless digital audio protocol that does not cost much but is as good as wired (or better). The technology exist, it's just a matter of standardisation and implementation. I don't have the skill or the money to do something like that myself, but some industry insiders are here also ...

 

[Koeitje]

There are systems that can do that (Dante for example) but these are very expensive. The big issue here is sync of all channels. There are speakers like the Neumann KH 120 II AES67 that can work with Dante, but your source also must do that, and Dante still recommend LAN cabling to all devices (The Neumann has only AES67 lan input, no wifi).

Sonos will be the cheapest system that can do so, and altough the amp systems are not that bad, it's not top of the game (but you don't mind). So i would look at a Sonos system with better speakers (speakers are optional). Amps and streamer are needed to make it work wireless but you can connect any speaker that fits the amps.

But for the rest, i don't really know a system that works well in that scenario. It coud be a very usefull thing, a universal wireless digital audio protocol that does not cost much but is as good as wired (or better). The technology exist, it's just a matter of standardisation and implementation. I don't have the skill or the money to do something like that myself, but some industry insiders are here also ...

I do care about the amplifier, because it would need to drive my front speakers and it doesn't look like it has pre-outs. My surround speakers are active speakers, so I wouldn't need an amplifier for that (If I would go passive I wouldn't really care about the amp though).

I'm also looking into WiSA, the miniDSP Flex HT as a WiSA streaming card upgrade coming in the future. But looks like you can't get a separate WiSA receiver for a loudspeaker, you have to buy a speaker that already supports it and those are way too expensive for my use case.

 

[JeremyFife]

You said it doesn't have to be ultra hifi ... what's rattling round my head is;

Can you use pairs of WiiM minis - group two of them, over WiFi, one taking the output from the amp and one feeding a speaker?
It's not massively cheap - 160 or so per speaker. The WiiM group function does seem to work well and you get rudimentary control over latency plus a bit of PEQ if you need it.
It's not SOTA ADC/DAC but it should be good enough.

A bit Heath Robinson, would it work?

 

[Wayne A. Pflughaupt]

I'm mainly worried about high noise, high latency and low output voltage.

Does anyone have experience with this for example:

Buying an Audio Anywhere 630 audio transmitter? | Marmitek

Audio Anywhere 630 | Wireless audio transmitter and receiver ✓ Connect your audio source wirelessly ✓ Buy now!

marmitek.com

No wireless system is as quiet as a good wired system. Even the best wireless gear used in pro audio applications has a S/N of 90 dBA, tops. However, the unit you’re considering doesn’t publish any noise spec, which may be a red flag.

I’m not sure why latency is that big an issue with surround channels? The Marmitek unit has 12.5 ms delay, according to its published specs. Is there a modern AVR that can’t adjust for that?

As far as output voltage, that’s something else not published by the manufacturer. Since it’s claimed to work with a home audio system, I’d assume the output is at least line level.

A concern I have with the Marmitek unit is, is it going to require pairing every time you use your system? If so, it seems to me that will get old pretty quick.

Honestly, you probably don’t know how suitable that unit will be until you bring it home and try it out. I’d make sure there’s a generous return policy, just in case there are issues. You might have to try a few units until you find one that is sastisfactory.

If it doesn’t work well for some reason, your best alternative is going to be something from the pro audio market. Some of it can be pretty pricey, but you can get good used gear for reasonable prices.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

 

[Koeitje]

No wireless system is as quiet as a good wired system. Even the best wireless gear used in pro audio applications has a S/N of 90 dBA, tops. However, the unit you’re considering doesn’t publish any noise spec, which may be a red flag.

I’m not sure why latency is that big an issue with surround channels? The Marmitek unit has 12.5 ms delay, according to its published specs. Is there a modern AVR that can’t adjust for that?

As far as output voltage, that’s something else not published by the manufacturer. Since it’s claimed to work with a home audio system, I’d assume the output is at least line level.

A concern I have with the Marmitek unit is, is it going to require pairing every time you use your system? If so, it seems to me that will get old pretty quick.

Honestly, you probably don’t know how suitable that unit will be until you bring it home and try it out. I’d make sure there’s a generous return policy, just in case there are issues. You might have to try a few units until you find one that is sastisfactory.

If it doesn’t work well for some reason, your best alternative is going to be something from the pro audio market. Some of it can be pretty pricey, but you can get good used gear for reasonable prices.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

Its not going to be noisier than LSR305's.

My experience with Marmitek is that their stuff does what it says on the box, but its not high end. So its still an option, but don't think I can delay video that much on my tv.

 

[Paffi]

Yup. "The low processing delay of just 20 milliseconds recommends the trX even for such time-critical applications,...." You need to compensate for that as well as the ensuing D/A.

I assume the thread starter uses an av prepro, where he can adjust the delays. Unless he is using further separate dsp e.g. for subs, so that the need for delay adjusment is higher then in the prepro possible, that should be not that big issue. Though we don't know the delays of the active speakers.

 

[somebodyelse]

There are systems that can do that (Dante for example) but these are very expensive.

Unless something has changed since I last looked, Dante doesn't play well with wireless. Nor do AVB or AES67 for that matter, because they all use PTP for time sync and that doesn't handle the variable latency of the WiFi well. AVB has other reasons too.

 

[Petrushka]

Just a simple surround receiver with pre-outs. My rear speakers are active, my front aren't (I use NC400 mono blocks for them). Just want to avoid an XLR cable running across the room.

But just as I thought, latency is a huge issue.


Costs more than my speakers .



2 channel is no issue, its just a left and right surround speaker. My setup is only 4 speakers (5.1 with a phantom center). Latency looks to be the main issue.


I wouldn't mind a Sonos setup if I could use my own speakers as front speakers + phantom center. Sonos is fine for the surrounds, don't need that high quality from that just the sound effects.

Sonos Port has coax out, so sound quality can go at least to CD quality.

I don’t know the cheapest configuration, but Sonos makes speakers specifically intended as surround speakers.

 

[Koeitje]

Sonos Port has coax out, so sound quality can go at least to CD quality.

I don’t know the cheapest configuration, but Sonos makes speakers specifically intended as surround speakers.

And that coax output is volume controlled? Also DD/DTS 5.1 support? Lossless surround decoding? HDMI eARC?

 

[Petrushka]

And that coax output is volume controlled? Also DD/DTS 5.1 support? Lossless surround decoding? HDMI eARC?

If you want everything, you have to spend a lot of money. The Sonos Amp has Arc input and supports Dolby and DTS surround. The surround speakers could be Sonos speakers or speakers connected to a Port.

So the simplest 5.1 system would use your front speakers and subwoofer, and Sonos connected surround speakers. I think, for music, that would be far better than using a soundbar. The Amp does not have a true center channel, but it does support a virtual center channel.

The Sonos Amp is not state of the art, but it’s CD quality.

 

[Koeitje]

If you want everything, you have to spend a lot of money. The Sonos Amp has Arc input and supports Dolby and DTS surround. The surround speakers could be Sonos speakers or speakers connected to a Port.

So the simplest 5.1 system would use your front speakers and subwoofer, and Sonos connected surround speakers. I think, for music, that would be far better than using a soundbar. The Amp does not have a true center channel, but it does support a virtual center channel.

The Sonos Amp is not state of the art, but it’s CD quality.

The amp does not have pre-outs.

 

[Petrushka]

The amp does not have pre-outs.

True. It’s a power amp.

 

[voodooless]

I think for simple surround duty, that Marmitek set will do just fine. Delay isn't that much of a concern on an AVR, since it will fix itself when calibrating timings. The 12.5ms delay is quite good. I also don't see any sync issues, because they capture audio in the analog domain, and will just playback what they capture with a fixed delay.

I ran a similar setup in the past and it worked okay, except that the range was terrible, it couldn't even make it reliable across 5 meters It wasn't a Marmitek product though.