Will there be noticeable difference between FiiO K7 and the new K11 with CS43198 dac? Which one to choose?

[gen66]

The price difference between the two is 90$.
I'm going to use it for for my HD660s and my desktop monitor speakers KRK Rokit 5 G4.

They both have literally the same inputs/outputs, difference is mainly in dac chips. K11 has a single CS43198 while the K7 a dual AK4493S.
Honestly, I'm absolutely clueless how is this going to objectively affect sound quality?
CS43198 can be found also in their cheaper headphone only dac/amp, however they have it in dual configuration. Also , for example the expensive Topping d30 pro has 4xCS4198.

 

[staticV3]

Hi @gen66! Welcome to ASR.

Both of these DAC chips are miles better than what human ears can perceive.
They will both sound 100% transparent and sound exactly the same.

 

[voodooless]

The biggest difference is the output power: the K7 has a bit more power.

 

[gen66]

Thank you guys for the prompt answers! This kind of also brings extra confusion to me since I read quite a few discussions already regarding AKM vs ESS dacs for example and they have quite a distinct soundings signatures, the implementation of course being still the most important but still the dac chips are claimed to influence the sound.
So I couldn't find anything regarding CS43198. ESS also should be above what humans ears can percieve but people are still heavily opinionated about them, I'm super extra confused now.

 

[voodooless]

I read quite a few discussions already regarding AKM vs ESS dacs for example and they have quite a distinct soundings signatures,

No, they don’t. Properly designed DACs don’t have sound signatures. Nobody has ever proven otherwise.

 

[staticV3]

This kind of also brings extra confusion to me since I read quite a few discussions already regarding AKM vs ESS dacs for example and they have quite a distinct soundings signatures, the implementation of course being still the most important but still the dac chips are claimed to influence the sound.
So I couldn't find anything regarding CS43198. ESS also should be above what humans ears can percieve but people are still heavily opinionated about them, I'm super extra confused now.

Its almost always cognitive biases that make people believe that they can tell DACs apart based on their chips.

Once you remove those biases from the equation with properly controlled tests, all sound differences suddenly disappear.

 

[gen66]

Well well, I'll be damned, my few days of reading goes out the window. I guess the 'audiophile' subreddits weren't the best place for a research. In such case for my use case in particular it's absolutely irrelevant which one of the two I will buy since they both have balanced output which I'm going to use with the hd660s. I guess it's better to save the 90$ then...
But then why does it matter if it's dual dac chips or single, why topping does quad dac? How does dual akm benefit vs a single akm?

 

[staticV3]

But then why does it matter if this dual dac chips or single, why topping does quad dac?

Every doubling of DAC chips increases the SNR by ~2.5dB

 

[antcollinet]

Well well, I'll be damned, my few days of reading goes out the window. I guess the 'audiophile' subreddits weren't the best place for a research. In such case for my use case in particular it's absolutely irrelevant which one of the two I will buy since they both have balanced output which I'm going to use with the hd660s. I guess it's better to save the 90$ then...
But then why does it matter if it's dual dac chips or single, why topping does quad dac? How does dual akm benefit vs a single akm?

It's a numbers game - like computer GHz CPU specifications.

As long as sufficient people believe the bigger number is better, and demand them from manufacturers - then manufacturers will be forced to keep up with each other, regardless of the actual real world benefit (or lack of benefit).

The great thing about this place is we have measurements of lots of devices which tell us exactly what that real world benefit will be.

 

[nerdemoji]

Well well, I'll be damned, my few days of reading goes out the window. I guess the 'audiophile' subreddits weren't the best place for a research.

yes audiophile subreddits are the place for people who know little about science and will therefore spend (actually, waste) much more on audio equipment during their lifetime as a result. beware of the blather that people put out on such sites

 

[AnalogSteph]

Please note that the K7 has unbalanced line-outs only, as does the K11. Unless you are using cables explicitly constructed to take that into account (built like these), you may run into ground loop issues. What you are looking for is more along the lines of a SMSL DL200, Topping EX5 or one of at least half a dozen audio interfaces with a decent headphone output (it's not like a 300 ohm Sennheiser would be a particularly challenging load, give them an undistorted >2 Vrms with <50 ohms ohms of output impedance or so and you should generally be perfectly happy).

Audio interface under 350€ that can power HD660s2

Hello, I know that my question might sound stupid, but right now I have an audio interface, the UMC202HD. I just got HD660s2 and was going to buy the SMSL DL200 (or FiiO K7 maybe because of the balanced output) as DAC/AMP, but, I was wondering if there is a good audio interface under 350€...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[FreakyKiwi]

Well well, I'll be damned, my few days of reading goes out the window. I guess the 'audiophile' subreddits weren't the best place for a research. In such case for my use case in particular it's absolutely irrelevant which one of the two I will buy since they both have balanced output which I'm going to use with the hd660s. I guess it's better to save the 90$ then...
But then why does it matter if it's dual dac chips or single, why topping does quad dac? How does dual akm benefit vs a single akm?

DAC chips should all sound the same, but there can be differences due to implementation and the design of the analog stage and amplifier.

The K11 looks like a nice little unit, much less power single ended than the other options though. It's good to see a Fiio desktop DAC with a display.

SMSL have the M300SE using a Cirrus DAC (2 X CS43131) which this looks to be competing with.

 

[Blorg]

SMSL have the M300SE using a Cirrus DAC (2 X CS43131) which this looks to be competing with.

Fiio K11
3.5 - 720mW @16Ω, 520mW @32Ω, 60mW @300Ω
4.4 - 570mW @16Ω, 1,400mW @32Ω, 250mW @300Ω

K11_parameters

K11_parameters

www.fiio.com

SMSL M300SE
148mW @32Ω, 15mW @300Ω

M300 SE

Foshan ShuangMuSanLin electronics Co., LTD. founded in 2009 which located in Shenzhen, China. And our branch company VMV Technology(HK) Company Limited registered in HK in 2013. Our company is specialized in the audio DAC, stereo headphone amplifier, power amplifier, and with own R&D...

www.smsl-audio.com

SMSL has BT input and XLR DAC out on the back, it's more flexible as a pure DAC. It also probably measures very well on pure DAC measurements, predecessors did and SMSL claim it does. It's not really much of a headphone amp, their schematic for it, there is no amp, the headphone out is just coming straight off the DAC chips (the CS43131 has an integrated amp, and they mention this, so presumably that's it). So it's equivalent to a CS43131 dongle (albeit with a lower than expected 300Ω performance- that looks like it could be the SE 300Ω, it could do 40mW balanced).

Fiio K11 is an actual headphone amp, with 10-15x the power, enough power for virtually any headphone short of a handful of extreme outliers (HE6SE, Susvara, etc).

 

[FreakyKiwi]

Fiio K11
3.5 - 720mW @16Ω, 520mW @32Ω, 60mW @300Ω
4.4 - 570mW @16Ω, 1,400mW @32Ω, 250mW @300Ω

SMSL M300SE
148mW @32Ω, 15mW @300Ω

Oh wow, I completely missed that spec.
I assumed it was using the Cirrus chip amp the same way as the M300SE.

As a cheap, small, entry level DAC (don't let the name fool you, it is not positioned above the K9) this looks very promising.

 

[MLaranjeiras]

yes audiophile subreddits are the place for people who know little about science and will therefore spend (actually, waste) much more on audio equipment during their lifetime as a result. beware of the blather that people put out on such sites

Bought this two guys for about US$ 250.00 each and the silver one made a friend sell a 12 thousand dollars amplifier to cling on a Sansui AU A907 XR. The good miner gets his reward.

 

[MLaranjeiras]

Bought this two guys for about US$ 250.00 each and the silver one made a friend sell a 12 thousand dollars amplifier to cling on a Sansui AU A907 XR. The good miner gets his reward.

… the 1979 Sansui AU 317 is not far behind from the Silver/ Golden/Champagne Alpha Series sold only in Japan

 

[megapro17]

To be fair k11 has a good metrics with sinad 104 db on unbalanced output

K11_parameters

K11_parameters

www.fiio.com

K7 is better but more expensive

https://www-l7audiolab-com.translate.goog/f/fiio-k7/

Why more expensive model like k9 akm is mising dashboard picture...