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Why has the loudness war not ended yet?

TBone

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Applying compression during mixing is the wrong solution, it damages the source material. It would be better to provide compression controls in the playback device.

However, in modern times, most wouldn't want to manually adjust such settings. A possible solution could therefore be something akin to the compression controls or dynamic eq already seen in AVRs.

Thinking out loud here... Further down the line I wonder if we might see something similar to Dolby vision. I.e. HDR Audio, where metadata accompanies the audio stream with flags to specify the amplitude scale that the DAC should use. (This could allow more optimal use of the available number of digital bits).

...Compression control could easily be implemented simply by adjusting the transfer function between the metadata amplitude flags ...

kinda reminds me of replay-gain somewhat, perhaps a workable solution, however ...

... problem remains ... overall compression = dynamic capability of source material provided; strictly judged on todays sound/remasters (esp w/old.orig.analog) ... the compression remains ...

hence ... why the war was "lost".
 

sergeauckland

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Applying compression during mixing is the wrong solution, it damages the source material. It would be better to provide compression controls in the playback device.

However, in modern times, most wouldn't want to manually adjust such settings. A possible solution could therefore be something akin to the compression controls or dynamic eq already seen in AVRs.

Thinking out loud here... Further down the line I wonder if we might see something similar to Dolby vision. I.e. HDR Audio, where metadata accompanies the audio stream with flags to specify the amplitude scale that the DAC should use. (This could allow more optimal use of the available number of digital bits).

...Compression control could easily be implemented simply by adjusting the transfer function between the metadata amplitude flags and the amplitude scaling. (Equivalent to dynamic tone mapping of the Electro-Optic Transfer Function EOTF in HDR displays).

Edit: On second thoughts... Perhaps HDR audio doesn't make as much sense as HDR video. Most displays have only 10 or 12 bits per colour channel, but have millions of pixels per frame. (The bit depth is a limiting factor for the visual appearance, but cannot easily be increased due to the enormous bandwidth needed). For audio it is already practical to have 32 or 64 bits per channel (typically only 10s of channels required, maximum). ...At which point there is no need to mess about with flags to switch between amplitude ranges. (16 bits is probably already enough for most audio distribution and 24 should easily be plenty).
Back in the day when DAB was being introduced here, it was proposed that all receivers should have dynamic range control, so that the transmissions could be uncompressed, and any compression applied at the receiver.

This was universally objected to by the receiver manufacturers as increasing their costs whilst confusing listeners, who clearly can't cope with anything more complicated than a volume control. The result was that digital radio here is as heavily compressed as FM which became as heavily compressed as AM. There's a perfectly sound technical reason for AM being compressed, but The Great Unwashed clearly preferred heavy compression, so that's what we have. CDs just followed the trend to greater loudness. People complained the CDs they bought didn't sound 'as good' as they heard them on heavily compressed FM.
 

IndieSynth

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So should we as listeners be turning loudness normalization on or off? For optimal dynamic range/sound quality. Does it matter?
 

Zensō

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So should we as listeners be turning loudness normalization on or off? For optimal dynamic range/sound quality. Does it matter?
I’d say it depends upon your listening habits. If you listen to a lot of playlists where the volume jumps dramatically from one song to the next, I’d turn it on. On the other hand, if you primarily listen to full albums, I’d turn it off. In other words, the need for leveling overrides any changes in sound quality, which are unlikely in any case.
 

DVDdoug

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So should we as listeners be turning loudness normalization on or off? For optimal dynamic range/sound quality. Does it matter?
Normally it should be on. With most streaming services you don't get a choice... It's applied automatically.

When done "correctly" it doesn't affect the musical dynamic contrast. It just makes all of your music various music tracks more-equal in loudness by adjusting the level before the track starts, or with ReplayGain's Album Gain, before the album starts so that the louder tracks remain relatively louder and the quiet tracks remain relatively quieter, as was intended.

It compensates for "Loudness War" compression/limiting and it defeats the purpose, but it doesn't un-do the damage.

But sometimes "loudness normalization" means automatic volume control. That does the opposite.... It's a kind of slow dynamic compression that turns-down the loud parts and turns-up the quiet parts.
 

Mart68

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Suspecting (from previous Gallagher-related efforts) that it may be heavily compressed, I reduced the volume substantially before pressing play - And a good job I did!


Really no need for this in 2024. Might try out the dynamic expander feature on the pre-amp.
 

dasdoing

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they use limiters and clippers in the mixing stage now; on individual tracks and groups. it almost seems like the LUFS standard made things worse since it is so broken.
 

Jaxjax

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How about Radio Paradise .? I find the global mix to have some quality tracks being played on that.
 

coonmanx

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Listened to a Gary Clark Jr. CD today and the power meter LEDs barely flickered and I thought to myself... "Loudness wars and compression"...
 
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