Where is the Flaw in most Multichannel Preamps/ AVRs?

[SoundsGood2Me]

Has anyone mentioned Toppings' DM7 8CH Balanced DAC?
Supposedly runs around -123dB S/N

DM7 8CH USB DAC-TOPPING

 

[Chrispy]

I'm interested in your comment because I'm asking myself if it is worth building a multichannel system. I have had multichannel systems in the past, but I don't think I got much benefit from them. Atmos/ "spacial audio", plus the trend of movies having more robust LFE tracks makes me curious.

I sold my last surround sound system years ago and used the money to buy a 2.1 Genelec system. That was over 10 years ago. Now I've moved on to building my own speaker system, and just wondering how surround sound has changed in the interim.

I prefer my multich systems over 2ch (do still have one 2ch setup tho). No Atmos, tho, not really wanting to dig into my ceilings.

I'd say LFE is getting less robust these days, tho.

How many years ago and what sort of setup was it?

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Has anyone mentioned Toppings' DM7 8CH Balanced DAC?
Supposedly runs around -123dB S/N

DM7 8CH USB DAC-TOPPING

I have one. Nice DAC. https://www.stereophile.com/content/topping-dm7-8-channel-da-processor

 

[Kal Rubinson]

I prefer my multich systems over 2ch (do still have one 2ch setup tho). No Atmos, tho, not really wanting to dig into my ceilings.

D'accord.

I'd say LFE is getting less robust these days, tho.

LFE has been (and is) a minor issue with me since the vast majority of my MCH collection does not (and never will) have one. I don't know why it is needed with a really good system.

 

[Chrispy]

D'accord.

LFE has been (and is) a minor issue with me since the vast majority of my MCH collection does not (and never will) have one. I don't know why it is needed with a really good system.

LFE in movies is what I was referring to. It's not really well used for music IME in any case. Then again re-routing it even with capable speakers isn't always possible.

 

[Fredygump]

I prefer my multich systems over 2ch (do still have one 2ch setup tho). No Atmos, tho, not really wanting to dig into my ceilings.

I'd say LFE is getting less robust these days, tho.

How many years ago and what sort of setup was it?

I said it was a bit over 10 years. It was essentially this system linked below, except I had 2 subwoofers. (Mine was from before Klipsch bought them, though I don't know if that makes a difference.)

https://www.energy-speakers.com/products/home-theater-systems/?sku=V-6-2-HTS

And then I had a second hand flagship Harmon Kardon AVR, Emotiva 200x 5 channel amp. So yeah, it was well above average as far as a 5.1 system goes.

 

[Chrispy]

I said it was a bit over 10 years. It was essentially this system linked below, except I had 2 subwoofers. (Mine was from before Klipsch bought them, though I don't know if that makes a difference.)

https://www.energy-speakers.com/products/home-theater-systems/?sku=V-6-2-HTS

And then I had a second hand flagship Harmon Kardon AVR, Emotiva 200x 5 channel amp. So yeah, it was well above average as far as a 5.1 system goes.

Definitely a decent system, too bad Energy got swallowed up and spit out. Perhaps now there are a few more codec/processing options you didn't have but wouldn't say it has changed particularly. Still mostly in the recording itself and the speakers and setup in the room rather than the electronics. I have just liked the multich possibilities more than just 2ch....goes for both movies and music (have a pretty decent multich collection going).

ps as to worrying about sinad of an avr vs 2ch, I find that fairly irrelevant in use.

 

[Fredygump]

D'accord.

LFE has been (and is) a minor issue with me since the vast majority of my MCH collection does not (and never will) have one. I don't know why it is needed with a really good system.

That brings up another question. Should we expect that a stereo mix from a movie incorporates all the low frequency content, or is some of the LFE content lost?

I've found that the audio I get from Amazon Prime sounds great in stereo.

I did a comparison using the same movie from multiple sources, blueray, Amazon, and moviesanywere. All were in stereo, and I had an RTA running while playing to see general differences. Amazon's audio sounds great, but high passed around 30hz. Movies anywhere audio was boosted from 70-100hz, and also high passed around 30hz. The blueray extended down to ~20hz, but nothing impressive/ special/ different that was immediately evident to me.

My speakers are quite unique--they are 4 way active speakers, a DIY mash-up of a Genelec W371A and 8381A. Both have a built in subwoofer capable of 110+dB @20hz, with F3 of ~16hz....so I should be able to reproduce any low frequency content that is available.

(I'm also trying to see if there is a way I can coax a multichannel signal out of my Mac Mini and into the HTx, but so far no luck. This whole thing is a lot more complicated than it should be...)

 

[Chrispy]

That brings up another question. Should we expect that a stereo mix from a movie incorporates all the low frequency content, or is some of the LFE content lost?

I've found that the audio I get from Amazon Prime sounds great in stereo.

I did a comparison using the same movie from multiple sources, blueray, Amazon, and moviesanywere. All were in stereo, and I had an RTA running while playing to see general differences. Amazon's audio sounds great, but high passed around 30hz. Movies anywhere audio was boosted from 70-100hz, and also high passed around 30hz. The blueray extended down to ~20hz, but nothing impressive/ special/ different that was immediately evident to me.

My speakers are quite unique--they are 4 way active speakers, a DIY mash-up of a Genelec W371A and 8381A. Both have a built in subwoofer capable of 110+dB @20hz, with F3 of ~16hz....so I should be able to reproduce any low frequency content that is available.

(I'm also trying to see if there is a way I can coax a multichannel signal out of my Mac Mini and into the HTx, but so far no luck. This whole thing is a lot more complicated than it should be...)

I'd guess more lost or at least at the intended level.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

LFE in movies is what I was referring to. It's not really well used for music IME in any case. Then again re-routing it even with capable speakers isn't always possible.

I really do not profess any insight or, to be honest, great interest in movies. IMHO, LFE is not needed for music recordings. Bass management is available where necessary or desired.

 

[Chrispy]

I really do not profess any insight or, to be honest, great interest in movies. IMHO, LFE is not needed for music recordings. Bass management is available where necessary or desired.

More depends on how the LFE channel is utilized in the particular recording...generally it's not important for multich music that I've run across.

 

[StigErik]

I think it is inaccurate to describe "different" functionality is either "more" or "less". And then there is the question of audio quality, where the Behringer is lagging far behind. So yeah, not sure how the Behringer is relevant to this discussion.

Of course the sound quality of the DCX is nowhere near the Mindsp Flex. It can’t run FIR. The power of the DSP is not great, which limits the number of active PEQs. No high-Q PEQs either. And no Dirac.

It does however have a number of features which the Flex doesn’t have. And I miss them.

- Front panel buttons, config display and meters
- Does not require a PC
- All settings are stored in the unit itself, and can also be retrieved from the unit. Not possible on the Flex.
- Settings lock and password protection
- 60 presets vs 4 on the Flex
- Peak meters
- Fast attack limiters
- Dynamic EQ
- XO point phase adjust
- Delay is displayed in both time and distance