What to do about the ABX test?

[MattHooper]

Who cares, so long as they don't make dubious claims about audio from sighted comparison?

Well, I guess it depends how interested one is in blind testing, on a site in which it is constantly invoked.

I don't think anyone has to do blind testing. But even the site's proprietor promotes the idea doing blind tests is a good education, in terms of having the actual experience, for an audiophile. He walks the walk having done many blind tests himself.

Also, depending on how you view blind tests, it could be seen as a way of contributing something more rigorous than opinions to the site.

Again...you are right. You don't have to care about blind tests.

Be aware of the caveats that sighted perception of sound quality necessitates. Adjust your claims/observational reports accordingly. It's not that hard to do.

I agree that is a reasonable approach. But if we are talking about making claims in a public forum, it's not always that easy because you then have the problem of what other people will accept as a "properly scaled" observational report. There is disagreement, for instance, as to how confident one should be in drawing conclusions when comparing even speakers in sighted conditions. It goes in to the "you can't please everyone" category.

 

[Purité Audio]

One of my first unsighted, level matched attempts,

Keith

 

[pma]

One of my first unsighted, level matched attempts,

Keith

That’s really not very sophisticated, right?

 

[Purité Audio]

I don’t know what a sophisticated unsighted level matched comparison looks like.
The important factors are, level matched to .1dB and ask someone to switch inputs.
Keith

 

[voodooless]

Why do I have to resort in cheap humor or humiliate him?

Because it exactly reflects the level of the (non)argument made. Usually this comes up when already all kinds of valid arguments have been made and dismissed. Not that that is a justification, but it is a reason for doing it. Is it wrong? Maybe? Why walk on eggshells to make people feel better. We already lost a generation or two by doing that.

That will not determine him but me.

To whom?

 

[DonR]

That’s really not very sophisticated, right?

As long as the meter is within calibration it's probably good enough.

 

[tomelex]

I don’t know what a sophisticated unsighted level matched comparison looks like.
The important factors are, level matched to .1dB and ask someone to switch inputs.
Keith

Well it was a good first attempt, but if listening on speakers or headphones was involved then one match at one specific frequency is only a start as PMA suggests.

 

[pma]

As long as the meter is within calibration it's probably good enough.

No.

 

[Purité Audio]

Happy to follow any suggestions you might have PMA, ‘no’ doesn’t really help.
Keith

 

[DonR]

No.

No the meter is not within calibration?

 

[Sokel]

To whom?

As a person.(probably wrong term,damn my bad English,"identify" is better?)

For the rest:
Is not only the direct humiliation.It is also the one expressed indirectly for people's choices.Specially the ones who send stuff to Amir.
That's one of the reasons that we only see some low tier 5-10-15 years old stuff send with very-very few exceptions.
These people deserve thanks and get the stick instead.

 

[voodooless]

As a person.(probably wrong term,damn my bad English,"identify" is better?)

Sure, but what person?

For the rest:
Is not only the direct humiliation.It is also the one expressed indirectly for people's choices.Specially the ones who send stuff to Amir.
That's one of the reasons that we only see some low tier 5-10-15 years old stuff send with very-very few exceptions.
These people deserve thanks and get the stick instead.

I’m not sure what any of this has to do with anything. People that send stuff to Amir usually are greeted with enthusiasm and thanks. On the other hand I also don’t know why they would get a free pass on stupid arguments just because they send something in.

 

[Sokel]

Sure, but what person?

I’m not sure what any of this has to do with anything. People that send stuff to Amir usually are greeted with enthusiasm and thanks. On the other hand I also don’t know why they would get a free pass on stupid arguments just because they send something in.

As a person's quality.The ones confident with themselves will never become lesser by using bad,cheap humor nor they will find resort humiliating others.

As for the people sending stuff:
You don't need me to mark the expressions used,usually by members that found the light and as new fanatics want to establish their place amongst the ones who really know stuff and usually are much more kind and immune to rudeness.

Only as an example read one of the Chord reviews.Even if they measured straight the price was enough to trigger the low instincts of people.
It will be a while to see pricey items,I'm sure.

 

[sonitus mirus]

No the meter is not within calibration?

I don't even think the meter needs to be within calibration as long as it measures the same for both devices under test. I mean, even if it is off by 5dB from being accurate, as long as it was the same for both devices, it should be good to go for volume matching.

 

[lashto]

Why walk on eggshells to make people feel better. We already lost a generation or two by doing that.

because "people" is the only thing that actually matters !?!

And you might easily lose another x generations by doing "the other". "That" and "the other" are not exactly mutually exclusive.
(philosophically, one may argue that true black&white and mutually exclusive things only exist in the math book)

 

[DonR]

I don't even think the meter needs to be within calibration as long as it measures the same for both devices under test. I mean, even if it is off by 5dB from being accurate, as long as it was the same for both devices, it should be good to go for volume matching.

true

 

[tomelex]

Happy to follow any suggestions you might have PMA, ‘no’ doesn’t really help.
Keith

Keith, perhaps you could tell us what your test setup was trying to do, it is not obvious from the picture you posted so we can explore this further

 

[krabapple]

Again...you are right. You don't have to care about blind tests.

That's not what I wrote or meant. You wrote that most ASR members haven't posted blind test results for gear that they own, as if that was a problem. I wrote that I don't care that most ASR members haven't done that. I only care whether a post's claims needs a blind test to verify.

This isn't championship rhetoric competition or hammering out a Mideast peace treaty.

All a poster needs to do is add 'but this was done sighted, so I might be wrong' to their claim.

Here, I'll even supply a handy shorthand that users can tack onto their sentences as needed:
ds;mbw

 

[Purité Audio]

On that occasion if I remember correctly, I was comparing two dacs, Benchmark and a Weiss perhaps, although there is a little Audient in the photograph.
SergeAuckland of this very forum helped with the choice of meter and set-up.
Keith

 

[antcollinet]

Open mind people,this moves us forward.

But not so open your brains fall out.