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What the heck is YPAO doing?

Bjorn

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#1
I measured a setup a little while ago where a Yamaha surround receiver was used. I came across something very odd. When YPAO was activated, it raised the high frequencies considerably compared to using the receiver in Pure Direct without YPAO.

Here's the right speaker with Pure Direct:
Høyre ht frekvensrespons med opprinnelig sitteposisjon Pure direct.jpg


And here's YPAO activated for same channel. I believe the subwoofers were decativated in Pure Direct, but what interests me and I don't understand is what the correction is doing above 2KHz:
Høyre ht frekvensrespons med opprinnelig sitteposisjon og YPAO.jpg



Same thing on left channels. Pure Direct:
Venstre ht frekvensrespons med opprinnelig sitteposisjon Pure direct.jpg


Left with YPAO:
Venstre ht frekvensrespons med opprinnelig sitteposisjon og YPAO.jpg



Does anyone know what's going on here? The response with YPAO activated above 2KHz makes no sense.
 

mhardy6647

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#3
The initialism YPAO* makes me think of the (in)famous 'standard' for amplifier power ouput: PMPO

1593364966831.png

1593365037741.png



_________________
* Well, maybe it is an acronym... I suppose you could pronounce it! :)
 

North_Sky

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#4
I think Yamaha needs to get on the natural bandwagon and stop fooling around with their Mickey mouse EQ system. The years of old DSP echoes are over, we're in a new zone now, @ home in our own room's acoustics. We like our sound smooth and safe.
Yamaha would do good checking out and reaching out the TRINNOV team. I really think.
This the year 2020, time to advance.
 

SIY

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#5
I measured a setup a little while ago where a Yamaha surround receiver was used. I came across something very odd. When YPAO was activated, it raised the high frequencies considerably compared to using the receiver in Pure Direct without YPAO.
...Does anyone know what's going on here? The response with YPAO activated above 2KHz makes no sense.
Can you normalize or ratio the frequency response with YPAO to the response with YPAO off? Likewise, can you do an electrical measurement at the speaker terminals? That might make the effect clearer to see.
 
OP
Bjorn

Bjorn

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Thread Starter #6
This was a measurement at a client where I was advicing with acoustic treatment. Therefore I can't do an eleectrical measurement at the terminals now. But I did perform a nearfield measurement of one speaker with YPAO activated vs Pure direct.
Here's the overlay using 1/6 Oct. smoothing.
Nearfield measurement with YPAO vs Pure Direct.jpg


As you can guess, the blue graph is with YPAO (and subs).
 

rccarguy

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#7
It cut high frequency on my main speakers Certainly corrected the sibilance compared to pure direct..midrange certainly better too
 

3dbinCanada

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#8
I measured a setup a little while ago where a Yamaha surround receiver was used. I came across something very odd. When YPAO was activated, it raised the high frequencies considerably compared to using the receiver in Pure Direct without YPAO.

Here's the right speaker with Pure Direct:
View attachment 71055

And here's YPAO activated for same channel. I believe the subwoofers were decativated in Pure Direct, but what interests me and I don't understand is what the correction is doing above 2KHz:
View attachment 71056


Same thing on left channels. Pure Direct:
View attachment 71057

Left with YPAO:
View attachment 71058


Does anyone know what's going on here? The response with YPAO activated above 2KHz makes no sense.
It would help if you gave the model number of the Yamaha? Its analogous to saying all corvettes are slow without specifying the model. Were the measurements taken at the same listening position with YPAO off and activated?
 
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#9
I think Yamaha needs to get on the natural bandwagon and stop fooling around with their Mickey mouse EQ system. The years of old DSP echoes are over, we're in a new zone now, @ home in our own room's acoustics. We like our sound smooth and safe.
Yamaha would do good checking out and reaching out the TRINNOV team. I really think.
This the year 2020, time to advance.
Trinnov pricing starts where Yamaha ends. DSP modes on Yamaha has little to do with YPOA corrections. You do not have to use them if you do not want too.
 
Last edited:
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#10
I measured a setup a little while ago where a Yamaha surround receiver was used. I came across something very odd. When YPAO was activated, it raised the high frequencies considerably compared to using the receiver in Pure Direct without YPAO.

Here's the right speaker with Pure Direct:
View attachment 71055

And here's YPAO activated for same channel. I believe the subwoofers were decativated in Pure Direct, but what interests me and I don't understand is what the correction is doing above 2KHz:
View attachment 71056


Same thing on left channels. Pure Direct:
View attachment 71057

Left with YPAO:
View attachment 71058


Does anyone know what's going on here? The response with YPAO activated above 2KHz makes no sense.
Need more info. How many measuring points? At what distance from each other and at what height? What EQ you are running ? Flat or natural? Is the measurement from Pure direct and EQ comparable?
 
Last edited:

3dbinCanada

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#11
Need more info. How many measuring points? At what distance from each other and at what height? What EQ you are running ? Flat or natural? Is the measurement from Pure direct and comparable?
I asked for more information too but nothing so far. Like you said, DSP modes have nothing to do with YPAO. The DSP modes do depend on the results of YPAO but definitely not the other way around.
 

jomark911

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#12
Guys relax. audyssey xt32 does the same and even worse on the AVP A1HD A.
Starts adding -5-6db at 2khz and going up to 10db at 4khz all the way to 16khz.
 
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#13
Guys relax. audyssey xt32 does the same and even worse on the AVP A1HD A.
Starts adding -5-6db at 2khz and going up to 10db at 4khz all the way to 16khz.
The Denon has the old Audyssey XT implemented. The newest iteration, Audyssey XT32, gives much better results and does not tend to increase high frequencies anymore. I really wonder why Yamaha ist still sticking to the crappy YPAO thingy...
 

3dbinCanada

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#15
The Denon has the old Audyssey XT implemented. The newest iteration, Audyssey XT32, gives much better results and does not tend to increase high frequencies anymore. I really wonder why Yamaha ist still sticking to the crappy YPAO thingy...
Your making a judgement call on insufficient data. The OP was asked to provide more information, particularily, speaker and AVR make and model which he failed to do. The OP is behaving like a troll unless they provide the information.

I have 3 Yamaha AVRs and Im very happy with the outcome of YPAO.
 
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#16
Your making a judgement call on insufficient data. The OP was asked to provide more information, particularily, speaker and AVR make and model which he failed to do. The OP is behaving like a troll unless they provide the information.

I have 3 Yamaha AVRs and Im very happy with the outcome of YPAO.
Seems like your room is already pretty good without digital room correction. In various tests it has been validated that YPAO is just a very basic room correction not even able to correct subwoofers properly. I have a hefty room mode at 60 hz pushing volume almost 20 dB up. YPAO did nothing against it. Audyssey flattened frequency response quite nice but Dirac is miles ahead when it comes to almost eliminating room effects.
 

3dbinCanada

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#17
Seems like your room is already pretty good without digital room correction. In various tests it has been validated that YPAO is just a very basic room correction not even able to correct subwoofers properly. I have a hefty room mode at 60 hz pushing volume almost 20 dB up. YPAO did nothing against it. Audyssey flattened frequency response quite nice but Dirac is miles ahead when it comes to almost eliminating room effects.
Which Yamaha model do you have? Its true that the earlier models did not touch the bass until the RX-A3060 model came out. Bass was YPAO's weakness but it handled the mids and highs nice enough that I felt the correction improved the sound.
 

3dbinCanada

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#19
Shame the lower end models don't EQ the sub, I have a 671.
What I'm trying to say is that when the 1000/2000/3000 series was released, it wasnt until the 1060/2060/3060 model years. I think that you are correct that the best YPAO is reserved for the top 3 AVR models. :)
 
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#20
Shame the lower end models don't EQ the sub, I have a 671.
The higher models won´t do much for the sub either if you run the automatic YPAO on-screen. You have ~ 4 bands for subwoofer which you can tweak with manual PEQ, but the mic is also poor and there was some limitation how low it can eq. Basically with Yamaha receivers one should opt for MiniDSP or Antimode to get the sub sounding as good as XT32, ARC, Dirac Live. Fingers crossed they make necessary changes to new range. Many reviewers have said this for years that YPAO is behind others especially the low frequency correction and Yamaha engineers are bringing some stupid A.I features and other useless stuff, but they will sell much easier with correct type of marketing.

@amirm will hopefully measure the YPAO R.S.C with A1080 he has at some point. It has 64-bit processing power same to flagship model, missing the 3D angle measurements which Gene at Audioholics didn´t praise.
 
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