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Ultra-durable ear pads for heavy headphone usage?

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mike7877

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I just picked up, about a little less than a couple months ago (it's relative...), HD650s on sale -
They were $649.99 MSRP, on sale for $449.99.

Before that, let me do something nice and potentially save you a colossal amount of cash in the future:
450/650 is 70%. The headphones I bought weren't on a 30% off sale, though, -no:
They were on a $200 OFF sale, equal to...
38.5% off!

"How's this saving ME any money, genius?"

Easy now! Next time you're haggling and the guy's being disingenuous AND he's being a little slow (like you.. ...used to be!) (lol)

Trick him!! Make the situation fair again xD


Onto item #2: other important business:

So my HD650s. I saw 'em, bought 'em, got 'em in the mail.
Opened 'em, conneceted 'em, put 'em en me 'ead
'n I wore 'em! For like 600 hours, I wore 'em!

And now they feel like by 1000 hours, I'll be needing new foam pads!

600 hours in this 6-7 weeks is probably slightly less than heavy professional studio usage. Anyone with a studio? Is it 3 months and you need to dish out another 40 bucks for new pads? This can't be true! Every 4 years I'll have to spend, on pads, what the headphones themselves cost in the first place!!

I got to thinking...
Couches - they make harder foam options for custom couches. I ordered a reallll nice couch to last 20 years with some really rough wear fabric and the heaviest foam they make a while back. The pandemic gave that couch TONNES of sitting action - especially in my spot. Literally, the springs (extra heavy-duty springs) started going before the foam did! The cushions are still all about the same hardness (you can't tell them apart by feeling them, but no matter which cushion is on my spot, it now sinks visibly lower than the rest..

This extra reliable foam must be available for headphones, and someone must be putting it into headphones' ear cups for resale, wrapped in non-toxic material from, right?
Maybe that's too hopeful.. If not, the idea's out there for some foreign entrepreneur now('cuz we know nobody's going to get a corporate lawyer, rent a building, buy machinery, and do everything necessary to being up to code and regulations in North America.


Is there an alternative? Something safe that's not OEM but still.. safe?
Who knows where anything even comes from anymore... You can't even tell from reading a box in the grocery store where its contents are from, not even the country - let alone any identifying information. Just the "importer" and, oh, it's an LLC..

Am I stuck paying Sennheiser $40 every 3 months forever now? Or will the pads last longer than 3 months because the first bit wears down fast and the last bit takes a lot longer or something?
 
Is it the fabric, the foam, or both that are wearing out?

Keep in mind changing the pads can and will alter the sound.

Finding product specification for the foam used is really hard to do. But I can tell you what you want to consider with foam based on some standard measurements used in the upholstery industry.

Density is how much material is in the foam, so you can look at the numbers and that is material per cubic foot of foam. Standard upholstery foam ranges from 1.8 to 3.0, more or less.

ILD is indentation load deflection. That's how much pressure it takes to compress foam 25%. A lot of memory foam is dense, but compresses quite a bit. It just takes time to do so.

There is also foam that is called high resilient (HR). That foam lasts longer. You likely want HR foam.

Foam is cheap, even really good foam, for enough to make a lot of headphone pads. Covering them would be a PITA for me to do. But DIY is possible.
 
I bought these a couple of months ago for my older Senn HD580's. Memory foam and Sheepskin..... Dont know how long they are going to last though....

 
mike7877 said:
HD650s on sale -
They were $649.99 MSRP, on sale for $449.99.
Click to expand...
That's not on sale, that's more than retail price. The HD 650 can be had for €299 in Europe (minus VAT, if you order it from abroad). If you are in the US, the Massdrop x Sennheiser HD 6XX (which is the same headphone) sells for $199.

I just picked up, about a little less than a couple months ago (it's relative...),
Click to expand...
I wore 'em! For like 600 hours, I wore 'em!
Click to expand...
No way you managed to wear them for 600 hours in less than two months.

mike7877 said:
Am I stuck paying Sennheiser $40 every 3 months forever now?
Click to expand...
I'm on my second pair of pads since I got my HD 6XX back in 2018, and any other pads will almost certainly ruin the sound. So there is no alternative, IMHO.
 
Pareto Pragmatic said:
Is it the fabric, the foam, or both that are wearing out?

Keep in mind changing the pads can and will alter the sound.

Finding product specification for the foam used is really hard to do. But I can tell you what you want to consider with foam based on some standard measurements used in the upholstery industry.

Density is how much material is in the foam, so you can look at the numbers and that is material per cubic foot of foam. Standard upholstery foam ranges from 1.8 to 3.0, more or less.

ILD is indentation load deflection. That's how much pressure it takes to compress foam 25%. A lot of memory foam is dense, but compresses quite a bit. It just takes time to do so.

There is also foam that is called high resilient (HR). That foam lasts longer. You likely want HR foam.

Foam is cheap, even really good foam, for enough to make a lot of headphone pads. Covering them would be a PITA for me to do. But DIY is possible.
Click to expand...

It's the foam that's wearing out. It compresses more easily, and the position of the drivers relative to my ears is now closer. This does affect the sound, most obviously increased energy between 700-1500Hz.

I wonder... if the pads can be sliced near the part that attaches to the headphone, a nice long gash, and you can pull the foam out (after cutting it across to make this possible)... And then you could make the same shaped thing and kind of thread it back around, and then sew the gash
 
unpluggged said:
That's not on sale, that's more than retail price. The HD 650 can be had for €299 in Europe (minus VAT, if you order it from abroad). If you are in the US, the Massdrop x Sennheiser HD 6XX (which is the same headphone) sells for $199.



No way you managed to wear them for 600 hours in less than two months.


I'm on my second pair of pads since I got my HD 6XX back in 2018, and any other pads will almost certainly ruin the sound. So there is no alternative, IMHO.
Click to expand...

It's a sale - these are Canadian dollars! Haha (I thought I wrote that in the OP, but apparently not).

Right now the HD6xx are $479 on Amazon Canada, and Bay Bloor Radio in Toronto has them for $479 on for $379. I think when I bought my HD650, the 6XX could be bought for $330 (if it was on sale) from somewhere (not Amazon - they weren't on Amazon then - $330 is like $250USD (stuff is generally a bit more here). I like Amazon for knowing I'll be able to return an item if need be, and that shipping is free and usually doesn't take more than a day to arrive.

And yes, I definitely wore them for about 600 hours! I wore them at my PC, I wore them around the house, while cooking - even while walking outside (when it wasn't snowing, of course - they aren't the warmest, but better than nothing!)

I don't remember exactly why I didn't go with the HD6XXs, but I think it was I wanted to buy through Amazon, they didn't have them, and they weren't on sale elsewhere so they weren't in the running for all the savings. I'd also read online that the HD6XX sound a bit different than the HD650s - more tuned for more "modern" music (bass centric, I think they were getting at). I auditioned the HD600, HD650, and HD660S2, and ultimately settled on the 650s. The 660S2, while it could produce probably 5-6dB more sub-100Hz frequencies than the 650s before harmonic distortion started ramping up, there was extra bass all the time as well. This annoyed me because it messed with male vocals. Since the 650s only entered distortion territory very rarely (pretty much only when listening to songs with more bass loudly, with my EQ enabled to extend the HD650s frequency response down to 25Hz flat, and adding a 3dB bump (Q~0.8-1.0) somewhere between 65 and 85Hz) to taste. It didn't make sense for me to try to make the 660S2s sound right with vocals - vocals are a lot more difficult to fix with EQ than bass. Also, if using a device with only simple, or worse no, EQ, if I had the 660S2s, I'd have to suffer- whilst the 650s sound nice on their own (not muddy). The standard HD600 is a bit lighter in the bass than 650, and I can see how some would prefer its tuning (I think it's ~0.5dB flatter before rolloff). Heck, I might've gone with it if it weren't for its treble - the 600s treble peaks at somewhere between 300 / 400Hz lower than the 650, and I find that this character causes more clashes with things like electric guitars, especially brighter ones, or recorded in the 70s/early 80s, especially on analog. Again, not unfixable with EQ, but a pain (I do actually have to use my headphones without any processing sometimes).

So I'm now very familiar with how my HD650s are supposed to sound with all the listening I did. In the beginning I learned their character and over time I continually improved an EQ profile to make them flat over the entire hearing range - it takes a lot of time and listening to a lot of different material to know that what you've done is actually correct. I think I was 99% there at 120-150 hours. Somewhere around the 400-500 hour mark is when I noticed the midrange creeping up in level... I still haven't got replacement pads, so I'm glad someone revived this thread which never got a reply when I originally made it back in January!

I stopped using my cans as much as I was in Nov/Dec, and went back to primarily using my monitors. While the HD650s are very nice, I especially noticed after only listening to headphones for two months, how much I missed listening through speakers. This isn't a new concept, but headphones have their own equivalent of a "room" - but it's not a room affecting the sound, it's the width and shape of the person's head and ears which do. For practical reasons, most headphone drivers are about the same distance away from the entrance to the ear canal, and this distance causes some phase problems up in the 8 to 10kHz range. It's almost as unavoidable as having uneven bass response in a room that isn't 3,000 square feet! Usually, like the uneven bass response, we subconsciously account for this phase problem in headphones. But I found, that when you only listen through headphones, this upper treble phase problem starts to wear on you.

How do you like your HD6XXs? You've had them coming up on 7 years now... going to keep them for 20? Have they changed in sound at all (past the initial couple dozen hours)?
I think I'll still have my HD650s in 20 years (if the asteroid doesn't come). Maybe my kid will appreciate them!
 
mike7877 said:
I think I'll still have my HD650s in 20 years (if the asteroid doesn't come). Maybe my kid will appreciate them!
Click to expand...
I've had the HD600s for 25, replacing the pads and headband foam from time to time. A new cable was cheaper than just replacing the plugs when the connection at the end of the strain relief became intermittent. It used to be possible to get every part as a spare, although not all at the same place. Not sure if that's still true.
 
mike7877 said:
I wonder... if the pads can be sliced near the part that attaches to the headphone, a nice long gash, and you can pull the foam out (after cutting it across to make this possible)... And then you could make the same shaped thing and kind of thread it back around, and then sew the gash
Click to expand...
I saw a how-to where someone did something similar, inserting bits of memory foam through a small cut or unpicked seam. The unknown would be the effect on the response.
 
mike7877 said:
It's a sale - these are Canadian dollars! Haha (I thought I wrote that in the OP, but apparently not).
Click to expand...
Oh, that makes a difference.

mike7877 said:
And yes, I definitely wore them for about 600 hours! I wore them at my PC, I wore them around the house, while cooking - even while walking outside (when it wasn't snowing, of course - they aren't the warmest, but better than nothing!)
Click to expand...
You must have really liked them then :)

mike7877 said:
I'd also read online that the HD6XX sound a bit different than the HD650s - more tuned for more "modern" music (bass centric, I think they were getting at).
Click to expand...
This is not the case. The HD 6XX is the same headphone as the current iteration of HD 650 (with silver-screened drivers and the same earpads), that's why it became the hit it is.

mike7877 said:
Also, if using a device with only simple, or worse no, EQ, if I had the 660S2s, I'd have to suffer- whilst the 650s sound nice on their own (not muddy).
Click to expand...
That's basically the observation most reviewers share, so no surprise here ;)

mike7877 said:
I stopped using my cans as much as I was in Nov/Dec, and went back to primarily using my monitors. While the HD650s are very nice, I especially noticed after only listening to headphones for two months, how much I missed listening through speakers.
Click to expand...
I second that, again. It's always a pleasure to come back to a nice speaker setup after having gone for a prolonged headphone experience. But it's also true the other way around :)

mike7877 said:
How do you like your HD6XXs? You've had them coming up on 7 years now... going to keep them for 20? Have they changed in sound at all (past the initial couple dozen hours)?
I think I'll still have my HD650s in 20 years (if the asteroid doesn't come). Maybe my kid will appreciate them!
Click to expand...
I regard them as my benchmark headphones, and yes, while I go out to try something different in a store I have yet to find a pair that could fully replace my HD 6XX as the daily driver, at least not in the price range I'm willing to consider at this time. And yes, I do think they are with me to stay for the foreseeable future, especially with the spare parts availability in mind.

As the pads wear down with time, the sound alter slightly (our @solderdude made a thorough comparison in that regard a while ago). I also find the EQ preset developed by @oratory1990 sounding very good, especially when tweaking the bass and treble a bit (the parameters I use with my ADI-2 Pro are attached as a screenshot to this post)
1745950010268.png
 
mike7877 said:
Am I stuck paying Sennheiser $40 every 3 months forever now?
Click to expand...
Most probably yes, unfortunately, it's so infamous that people call it the "Sennheiser tax". You can try to EQ the differences of wear and even add cotton rolls behind the earpads to make them taller, but it'll never defeat brand new original earpads.

What you can try is getting alternatives from ZMF, which measure a bit similar to the originals and have a bigger lifespan.

shop.zmfheadphones.com

ZMF HD6xx+ Sub Pads

We have always loved the classic Sennheiser headphones at ZMF, but also have spent countless hours perfecting our own earpad recipe to get the most out of our headphones. In designing the ZMF HD6xx+ substitute earpads, Zach has used his research and experience in earpad material and shape, to...
shop.zmfheadphones.com shop.zmfheadphones.com

I've tried the Suede perforated and found the tuning similarish, it definitely didn't sound like the generic pads I was used to trying, which overboosted the bass and killed the midrange.
 
mike7877 said:
https://dekoniaudio.com/product/choice-suede-for-sennheiser-hd600-series-headphones/

?

Is this the brand you use? How durable do you find them?
Click to expand...

Dekonis are very well made and very comfortable. But I wouldn't get their earpads from the 6XX/650 specifically because it alters the sound too much, just in the way I described earlier. They're very upfront about this as well:

1745951510663.png


While not boosting the bass itself, the Suedes basically apply a negative high shelf after 300 Hz, which will make the headphones darker overall and perceptually bassy.
 
unpluggged said:
Oh, that makes a difference.


You must have really liked them then :)


This is not the case. The HD 6XX is the same headphone as the current iteration of HD 650 (with silver-screened drivers and the same earpads), that's why it became the hit it is.


That's basically the observation most reviewers share, so no surprise here ;)


I second that, again. It's always a pleasure to come back to a nice speaker setup after having gone for a prolonged headphone experience. But it's also true the other way around :)


I regard them as my benchmark headphones, and yes, while I go out to try something different in a store I have yet to find a pair that could fully replace my HD 6XX as the daily driver, at least not in the price range I'm willing to consider at this time. And yes, I do think they are with me to stay for the foreseeable future, especially with the spare parts availability in mind.

As the pads wear down with time, the sound alter slightly (our @solderdude made a thorough comparison in that regard a while ago). I also find the EQ preset developed by @oratory1990 sounding very good, especially when tweaking the bass and treble a bit (the parameters I use with my ADI-2 Pro are attached as a screenshot to this post)
View attachment 447691
Click to expand...

Yes, I really really liked them lol. Quite often I'd forget I was even wearing them. In the beginning, before the top of my head was used to the continuous weight right in the middle of my head, right around hour 2 or 3 I'd notice the top of my head had become quite sensitive=right under the pad. This slowly took longer and longer to happn, and now (and since about 6 weeks in) I can wear them however long I want and it never starts bothering me. I'm evolving xD

About the HD6XX being different, I do remember the driver being identical, but I also think there were some other differences... Obviously the driver and earpad are very important (probably most relevant in this case), but I think the chassis material/construction is a bit different, maybe the internal volume is. Also, there's a piece which sits in the chassis that separates the front of the driver from the back, and I think the 650s and 6XXs use different material. The 650 itself has used a different separator piece over the years - though the model was always 650, this piece changed, maybe 4 times?
I think the difference between the 650 and 6XX would be small but noticeable. How noticeable? I think someone really used to their version would probably be able to tell after some intense listening that the headphone they're listening to might not be their own. A random person? Probably no chance noticing...
Another factor was, I remember thinking that the 6XX hasn't been out for 25 years like the 650, and it doesn't have the proven track record, so might not have the same longevity - possible material quality sacrifices were made to make up some of the price difference in price between the two.
Ultimately I was thinking, if my headphones need a repair in 10 years from, say, accidental physical damage, it's probably going to be easier to find 650 vs 6XX parts, and they'd probably cheaper, too. The 650 might even still be in production! Not that the 6XX won't be.. but between the two, if one went out of production, it'd be the:
I say 6XX, because if the 650 goes out, the 6XX has no drivers!


Nice EQ parameters - I use similar ones!

3334 Q 0.976 -2.2dB
5269 Q 3.725 -1.5dB
1143 Q 2.320 -0.6dB
192 Q 0.871 -1.4dB
84 Q 0.800 +3.4dB
42 Q 0.800 +3.8dB
20 Q 1.500 +1.5

The above config makes my 650s sound neutral
... that is, until the dang pads wear out - then I've got some extra energy from midband down, and, also, because the drivers are that extra distance closer to my ears, the phase oddity around 9kHz is pushed up a bit, maybe to 10.5-11 and I believe a new one (which probably can't be fixed with EQ) manifests at about half that, at around 5.5.

If I want to add some bass to a recording (usually I won't for a song, but if I know an album is bass light it's worth the hassle)
Peaking filter:
Freq: 70-105Hz
Q: 0.85
0.0dB to +7dB

Usually it's between 85 and 95Hz and most often anything more than 2-3dB will end up sound unnatural. Tweaking the frequency to the ideal for the song might let up to +4dB
 
Curupira said:
Dekonis are very well made and very comfortable. But I wouldn't get their earpads from the 6XX/650 specifically because it alters the sound too much, just in the way I described earlier. They're very upfront about this as well:

View attachment 447697

While not boosting the bass itself, the Suedes basically apply a negative high shelf after 300 Hz, which will make the headphones darker overall and perceptually bassy.
Click to expand...

A negative high shelf starting at about 300Hz and reaching, by the time 1kHz rolls around, an entire -8dB.
I'm wondering how this is even... possible? You'd think, if anything, it'd be the lower frequencies which escape with earpads...
A driver transitioning from radiating into half-space to full only drops 6dB on axis, and here we lose a full 8. And way up there... It doesn't make sense to me.
Maybe they also give a new round/oval foam piece which covers the driver and around it. Even for that 8dB is still a lot

It looks like -8dB +/- just 1dB from 1,000Hz to 13,000Hz... I'd expect more variation with frequency - strange!
Well, I will keep them in mind for other headphones if I decide to ever get something different than my trusty 650s lol.
I think, if I'm going to spend significantly more than $500 on new headphones (or even just around $500 for another, different pair) it'll be when some new level of performance is made available. Something which enables a truly new class of performance
 
mike7877 said:
It doesn't make sense to me.
Click to expand...
It's most likely due to different foam materials and surface. The Sennheiser original pads use simple foam, whereas Dekoni must use memory foam which, from experience, absorbs more of the higher frequencies. But yes, 8dB is quite a leap, but having tried aftermarket pads, I don't doubt it happens.
 
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