What do you consider a benefit?I'm confused about tube preamps. Shouldn't the tube be the last stop before the speakers in order to benefit from the tube preamp?
Yeah. I guess another way to state it is will you get the same thing from a dedicated hybrid D amp as you would from plugging in a tube preamp to a nonTube class D amp?What do you consider a benefit?
If by benefits you mean tube distortion it does not matter where in the chain you add it, as long as the devices following the tube stage are linear.I'm confused about tube preamps. Shouldn't the tube be the last stop before the speakers in order to benefit from the tube preamp?
Whilst I agree with the above, I'm confused by the whole 'tube sound' business, as the tube preamps I've known and measured have had low distortion, decently wide frequency response, and at line level, adequately (i.e. inaudibly) low noise, albeit all worse than most SS preamps. Consequently, apart from the looks of the glowing tubes, which with preamps won't be much, I've not understood the audible benefits of a tube preamp.If by benefits you mean tube distortion it does not matter where in the chain you add it, as long as the devices following the tube stage are linear.
Edit: Hence it makes more sense to use a comparably cheap tube preamp feeding a solid state poweramp than the other way round because powerful tube poweramps are very expensive.
Ah, but the new eBay breed are run starved plate voltage with miniscule current to get the full advantage of grungy sound.Whilst I agree with the above, I'm confused by the whole 'tube sound' business, as the tube preamps I've known and measured have had low distortion, decently wide frequency response, and at line level, adequately (i.e. inaudibly) low noise, albeit all worse than most SS preamps. Consequently, apart from the looks of the glowing tubes, which with preamps won't be much, I've not understood the audible benefits of a tube preamp.
S.
Whilst I agree with the above, I'm confused by the whole 'tube sound' business, as the tube preamps I've known and measured have had low distortion, decently wide frequency response, and at line level, adequately (i.e. inaudibly) low noise, albeit all worse than most SS preamps. Consequently, apart from the looks of the glowing tubes, which with preamps won't be much, I've not understood the audible benefits of a tube preamp.
I'm not sure actual tube sound is important. Frankly, it seems like joining a club sometimes.Generally tube preamps don't have tube sound. It is tube power amps that do. Now yes those starved plate designs have a sound though not like a tube power amp. And that illustration is why just having vacuum tubes doesn't guarantee "tube sound".
Frankly, it seems like joining a club sometimes.
Yeah, back in the day the only tube items that had more or less exposed tubes were high-end amps. In high school a friend and I had the job of changing the dual KT88s/channel and adjusting the bias in a friend's dad's stereo. Oddly, that amp did not have the warm fuzzy muddy sound often associated with tubes. We got to keep the old tubes, too.I think that's a lot of it. Historically, tubes where meant to be heard but not seen. If you look at designs from the '50s up through the introduction of mass market SS, early to mid '60s, tube gear most always had covers, open in the back for access. But the actual tubes themselves were hidden. It wasn't something anyone wanted to 'show off'. Separate power amps all used cages which mostly hid the tubes, and those units were mostly hidden anyhow, inside consoles or cabinets.
Someone, somewhere, decided that tubes could be used for cosmetic purposes, and started sticking them in open air.
You wouldn't know this Fisher was a tube amp, unless you looked at the back. McIntosh makes sure you know you bought tubes, using green LEDs to highlight the sockets.
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Shouldn't the tube be the last stop before the speakers in order to benefit from the tube preamp?
Placebo effect, mostly, if the tube amp is an audibly competent one.I think the primary benefit of the tube preamp is that the knowledge of listening a tube preamp makes the owner experience the vaunted tube sound even if there are actually no audible differences compared to SS preamps. Then there is of course the image : A guy who owns a tube preamp is naturally more interesting person than an average Joe with ordinary consumer electronics...
Maybe. I've used them with ESLs, and the amps certainly have a sound with those. The various preamps I've used were clean sounding. SETs certainly have a sound. Too much of one for my tastes.I'm not sure actual tube sound is important. Frankly, it seems like joining a club sometimes.
Yes, bridged into a single sub. Works fine for desktop use. They are flat to 20Hz, so extended enough. Output impedance somewhat high, but as the amps are set for a 4 ohm load, output impedance is OKish.Quad II's to drive a subwoofer? Mine (sensitively rebuilt some time back by Glenn Croft r.i.p. are delightfully 'musical' and charming on vocals, but extended bass isn't at all a part of their portfolio really
Speaking of Glenn, he had some excellent valve/tube preamps in the 'Micro 25' series (his hybrid Series 7 power amps measured just like a valve amp with high distortion and 2.4 ohm output impedance, arguably deliberately) and certainly on the line inputs, were arguably transparent and with low noise.
I can't say I agree because my own experience is that a tube preamp can and usually does make a difference the sound that comes out the downstream amp, including class D amps such as my own Purifi-based amp. (Granted you will likely get more "tube sound" from a tube power amp but you'll probably get more of what's bad than what's good.)Generally tube preamps don't have tube sound. It is tube power amps that do. Now yes those starved plate designs have a sound though not like a tube power amp. And that illustration is why just having vacuum tubes doesn't guarantee "tube sound".