Trying to find the best DAC+Amp combo for the HD800s, under $900. Was originally leaning towards Schiit products, but they don't seem to review well.

[Quinton595]

Yeah, there's that too. Quite hard to judge reliability though, and you can already see pics of the devices in the ASR reviews.....still not that much to be discussed in my mind, but ok. I think I was triggered by the opening line in the title saying "Trying to find the best DAC+Amp combo for the HD800s, under $900", which indicates the whole kind of audiophool philosophy of "pairing" & "synergy" between components in the audio stack to influence the sound, lol.

The split between users on this forum, and on Headi-Fi is astounding to me. Everyone there, seemingly rational people, SWEAR that there are audible and distinct differences in tonality between models of amps, and DACs, and combinations thereof.

They also all SWEAR that the HD800s sound better on Tube amps, and should be run on tube amps.

I mean, feel free to see the types of responses I've gotten to my threads:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/schiit-lyr-impressions-thread.964223/page-87 (My comment starts about halfway down the page)

Do the Sennheiser HD800s pair well with a Modius DAC and Lyr Amp from Schitt Audio? What about with the smaller siblings, the Modi DAC and Vali 3 Amp?

Hello everyone, I have been having a hard time discerning what the general consensus is about pairing the Sennheiser HD800s with Schiit Audio equipment. Specifically, I'm looking at buying a Modius DAC and a Lyr Amp, in part because I think it will be neat to experiment with tube sound for...

www.head-fi.org

Tube amps are beloved for the warmth they impart to a sound signature. However, if you are the type of listener who is heavily EQ-ing your headphones anyways, does this make tube amps redundant? Is there still a reason to use Tube Amps with EQ?

Hello everyone, I might be purchasing a pair of Sennheiser HD800s soon, but, admittedly, I don't like the way they sound as much as some other headphones. With EQ, though, I'm able to get exactly the sound I want, and so I'm leaning towards buying the HD800s for some of its other strengths...

www.head-fi.org

Meanwhile everyone here just goes "Measurements, dawg. If it measures good, it is good."

I'm very near burnt-out on the topic from the overwhelming contradiction and differing points of view. Just trying to make ANY decision before I completely burn out, so that I can use my new HD800s.

 

[MRC01]

... They also all SWEAR that the HD800s sound better on Tube amps, and should be run on tube amps.
...

This is at least theoretically possible. The HD800 have exaggerated treble response with a spike at 5-6 kHz. The 800"S" has a resonator to reduce that spike, but the spike and bright presentation still exist (Amir's measurements show the spike at 5.2 kHz). A tube amp having a high output impedance will act as a voltage divider, increasing output voltage around 100 Hz where the HD800S impedance peaks. This bass boost can help to offset the treble making the headphone sound warmer or more balanced.

I say "theoretically" possible (I am skeptical) because this effect is usually pretty small, typically around 1 dB or so. But it depends on how high the amp's output impedance is.

That said, if you want to do it right, don't rely on a high output impedance tube amp to do what you can do much more precisely with DSP, to kill the response spike and lift the low bass.

 

[Brian Hall]

The split between users on this forum, and on Headi-Fi is astounding to me. Everyone there, seemingly rational people, SWEAR that there are audible and distinct differences in tonality between models of amps, and DACs, and combinations thereof.

They also all SWEAR that the HD800s sound better on Tube amps, and should be run on tube amps.

I mean, feel free to see the types of responses I've gotten to my threads:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/schiit-lyr-impressions-thread.964223/page-87 (My comment starts about halfway down the page)

Do the Sennheiser HD800s pair well with a Modius DAC and Lyr Amp from Schitt Audio? What about with the smaller siblings, the Modi DAC and Vali 3 Amp?

Hello everyone, I have been having a hard time discerning what the general consensus is about pairing the Sennheiser HD800s with Schiit Audio equipment. Specifically, I'm looking at buying a Modius DAC and a Lyr Amp, in part because I think it will be neat to experiment with tube sound for...

www.head-fi.org

Tube amps are beloved for the warmth they impart to a sound signature. However, if you are the type of listener who is heavily EQ-ing your headphones anyways, does this make tube amps redundant? Is there still a reason to use Tube Amps with EQ?

Hello everyone, I might be purchasing a pair of Sennheiser HD800s soon, but, admittedly, I don't like the way they sound as much as some other headphones. With EQ, though, I'm able to get exactly the sound I want, and so I'm leaning towards buying the HD800s for some of its other strengths...

www.head-fi.org

Meanwhile everyone here just goes "Measurements, dawg. If it measures good, it is good."

I'm very near burnt-out on the topic from the overwhelming contradiction and differing points of view. Just trying to make ANY decision before I completely burn out, so that I can use my new HD800s.

I would get an EQ before ever considering any kind of tube amp. With a tube amp you are stuck with the distortion and defects a tube amp has. With EQ, you can adjust just what you want.

 

[Quinton595]

I would get an EQ before ever considering any kind of tube amp. With a tube amp you are stuck with the distortion and defects a tube amp has. With EQ, you can adjust just what you want.

Oh I'm with you on that one. I even made a completely separate thread discussing that exact point -- if I'm planning on EQ-ing the headphones anyways, then what does a tube amp really get me?

In any case, I'm only really considering one tube amp -- the hybrid, solid-state-capable Schiit Lyr+. Supposedly, it sounds quite nice with the HD800s, and can allow me to roll tubes, but can also be run in a solid-state mode that is at least as decent technically than the Jotunheim 2, despite not being balanced.

That said, it's a roughly $900 purchase, while the Jot is a roughly $600 one. Much to consider.

 

[Brian Hall]

I prefer separates. Streamer -> dac -> eq -> headphone amp.

 

[Brian Hall]

I prefer separates. Streamer -> dac -> eq -> headphone amp.

And the 800 S sounds great with the Midgard.

 

[majingotan]

I prefer separates. Streamer -> dac -> eq -> headphone amp.

Same. Except my streamer is a dedicated Macbook Pro that solely runs Roon Endpoint or Spotify Connect (Windows 10 laptop is my Roon Core), and tubes are my fixed EQ effect boxes/headphone amplifier

And the 800 S sounds great with the Midgard.

Can confirm! Heard the HD800 S through the Halo and was very impressed with the sonic presentation subjectively

To the OP: save your $$$ on spending that doesn’t really give any audibility improvements (digital EQ and tubes are redundant on the same system, i.e. use either tube no eq or the other, eq but no tubes IMHO) and just get the $219 Midgard and use the Halo Output. Extremely Highly recommended objectively and subjectively for HD800 S and that’s not even applying any EQ whatsoever yet

 

[Quinton595]

My current planned stack is much simpler, just my computer, running Peace EQ, feeding into a Modius E DAC with the ES9028 Chip, feeding into either the Jotunheim 2 or the Lyr+.

 

[Robbo99999]

The split between users on this forum, and on Headi-Fi is astounding to me. Everyone there, seemingly rational people, SWEAR that there are audible and distinct differences in tonality between models of amps, and DACs, and combinations thereof.

They also all SWEAR that the HD800s sound better on Tube amps, and should be run on tube amps.

I mean, feel free to see the types of responses I've gotten to my threads:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/schiit-lyr-impressions-thread.964223/page-87 (My comment starts about halfway down the page)

Do the Sennheiser HD800s pair well with a Modius DAC and Lyr Amp from Schitt Audio? What about with the smaller siblings, the Modi DAC and Vali 3 Amp?

Hello everyone, I have been having a hard time discerning what the general consensus is about pairing the Sennheiser HD800s with Schiit Audio equipment. Specifically, I'm looking at buying a Modius DAC and a Lyr Amp, in part because I think it will be neat to experiment with tube sound for...

www.head-fi.org

Tube amps are beloved for the warmth they impart to a sound signature. However, if you are the type of listener who is heavily EQ-ing your headphones anyways, does this make tube amps redundant? Is there still a reason to use Tube Amps with EQ?

Hello everyone, I might be purchasing a pair of Sennheiser HD800s soon, but, admittedly, I don't like the way they sound as much as some other headphones. With EQ, though, I'm able to get exactly the sound I want, and so I'm leaning towards buying the HD800s for some of its other strengths...

www.head-fi.org

Meanwhile everyone here just goes "Measurements, dawg. If it measures good, it is good."

I'm very near burnt-out on the topic from the overwhelming contradiction and differing points of view. Just trying to make ANY decision before I completely burn out, so that I can use my new HD800s.

It is difficult to accurately compare headphones & amps/DACS if you have a long time between switching because accurate auditory memory is only measured in seconds and they're not always gonna be level matched, so a lot of these people are actually imagining the differences. It's better to understand the science & realise that DACS & amps don't change the sound if they measure well, they're supposed to be transparent so you can see the recording for what it is. Sane people would use EQ to change the sound of their headphones. Poor measuring DACS/amps could change the sound, but it's stupid because it's only one "random" fixed sound change, so you'd use transparent well measuring DAC/amps and then use EQ so that you can be in charge of fixing the headphone.

 

[Mr Swing King]

The split between users on this forum, and on Headi-Fi is astounding to me. Everyone there, seemingly rational people, SWEAR that there are audible and distinct differences in tonality between models of amps, and DACs, and combinations thereof.

They also all SWEAR that the HD800s sound better on Tube amps, and should be run on tube amps.

I mean, feel free to see the types of responses I've gotten to my threads:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/schiit-lyr-impressions-thread.964223/page-87 (My comment starts about halfway down the page)

Do the Sennheiser HD800s pair well with a Modius DAC and Lyr Amp from Schitt Audio? What about with the smaller siblings, the Modi DAC and Vali 3 Amp?

Hello everyone, I have been having a hard time discerning what the general consensus is about pairing the Sennheiser HD800s with Schiit Audio equipment. Specifically, I'm looking at buying a Modius DAC and a Lyr Amp, in part because I think it will be neat to experiment with tube sound for...

www.head-fi.org

Tube amps are beloved for the warmth they impart to a sound signature. However, if you are the type of listener who is heavily EQ-ing your headphones anyways, does this make tube amps redundant? Is there still a reason to use Tube Amps with EQ?

Hello everyone, I might be purchasing a pair of Sennheiser HD800s soon, but, admittedly, I don't like the way they sound as much as some other headphones. With EQ, though, I'm able to get exactly the sound I want, and so I'm leaning towards buying the HD800s for some of its other strengths...

www.head-fi.org

Meanwhile everyone here just goes "Measurements, dawg. If it measures good, it is good."

I'm very near burnt-out on the topic from the overwhelming contradiction and differing points of view. Just trying to make ANY decision before I completely burn out, so that I can use my new HD800s.

If you continue to visit Head-Fi then be sure to go to the Sound Science part of the forum. The guys there echo what most of us are saying here.
Once you start listening to folks who a) know what they’re talking about and b) aren’t trying to sell you anything…you’re well in your way.

Reading through subjective reviews where the listener has his eyes glued on his new tube wonder of an amp, or purposely noisy audiophile dac for that matter, is never going to enlighten anyone. They will however fool plenty of folks and newcomers to the hobby who aren’t aware of how easily our senses are fooled. A blindtest though will make anyone sober (or mad!).

P.S. The (OTL) tube amps I’ve heard with high output impedance, effectively changing the sound via an impedance hump, always lost out to a simple ss amp. The former ends up ever so slightly raising the bass level as well as distortions. Something which is way easier done over EQ with better results.

 

[GeorgeWalk]

I had the Schitt Valhalla 2. I sold it. I thought it was a bit noisy and I didn't like the sound. I have used the JDS O2 which a a precursor to the Atom line; really nice amp. I have also used the Topping D90/A90, D50s/A50s, and the DX 3+.

You can't go wrong with any of the Toppings or JDS DACs/AMPs.

I am not a fan of tube amps.

 

[ferrellms]

Hello everyone,

I will shortly be buying some HD800s. I love them for their clarity, detail, and open-ness. I am trying to figure out what DAC and Amp to use with them, though, as I currently don't own an Amp, and am borrowing a DAC (Grace SDAC).

I've tried to do my reading, but I keep coming across a lot of contradictory and outdated information.

I've always had my heart set on some Schiit products, but for no real, substantive reason. I just like the way they look, and know their catalogue well.

I AM open to other brands, but only if they look as good, and as clean as the Schiit products. My stack will end up sitting directly in front of me, a foot away, under my monitor, so I'll be looking at it 24/7.

Anyway, I was originally considering the Lyr+ and the Modius Dac. Roughly $879, and it gets me a Tube amp, a Solid State Amp, and a discrete, balanced DAC.

However, after reading, it seems a lot of people don't hear much difference between the tube and solid states, because the tube stage is very clear, and not "tubey". And the solid state itself doesn't seem to be very good, as far as raw measurements go. Also, when in solid state, the tube is still powered, so you're still burning through its lifespan.

So then I started to consider the Jotunheim 2 with its integrated DAC card. Much cheaper, at $599, and it gets me a balanced Amp, and A Multibit DAC.... but then I started reading, and everyone hates the Multibit DAC. Okay, so I can buy the solid state DAC card instead.... except that one apparently tests horribly too. Amir's reviews, for example, really shake my confidence in it.

The thing is, I can't find any reviews or testing on the NEW ES9028 DAC card. So I don't know if these issues have been addressed.

Okay, so how about a Jotunheim 2 and a Modius DAC?

Well, then there's also the Valhalla 2 OTL tube amp. Okay, that one tests abysmally, per Amir, but seems to be beloved by actual users?

Then there's the smaller cousins of everything, the Modi and Magni

Then there's other brands like the JDS Labs Atom stack...

Oh, and I'd one day like to be able to add a speaker amp to the stack, so I need something that disables speaker outputs when a headphone is plugged in...

Can you tell I'm overwhelmed?


--

It appears that I don't have particularly discerning ears. I don't seem capable of hearing a lot of the subtleties that others describe in the audio world. For example, the soundstage on the HD800s sounds, to MY ears, exactly the same as the soundstage on the HD6XX. This is apparently heresy, as the difference SHOULD be night-and-day.

So, a big part of me wonders if I'm going to even hear some of the complaints people have about given systems. They say the Jotunheim 2 is too bright with the HD800s, or that the Valhalla's technical performance is too low... but will I even be able to hear a difference? Should I just buy based on looks?

Thank you all for your time.

You asked, so here is my answer. They will all sound the same unless one is defective.

 

[oleg87]

The split between users on this forum, and on Headi-Fi is astounding to me. Everyone there, seemingly rational people, SWEAR that there are audible and distinct differences in tonality between models of amps, and DACs, and combinations thereof.

Rationality in no way protects you from our standard-issue human cognitive biases/perceptual illusions. Placebo effect with audio should not be underestimated, but it's up to you what price tag you want to attach to differences that almost certainly don't exist outside of your head - I also "hear" clear differences that I then completely fail to discern in a blind test. Once you gain a healthy respect for your brain's ability to fool itself, all these subjectivist discussions become much less interesting.

 

[paudio]

How loud do you listen normally though? I'd start with a $10 apple usb-c to 3.5mm dongle + equalizer apo/peace. If that doesn't get loud enough then you could go with a Qudelix 5K or if you prefer a desktop unit get a JDS Lab amp and use the apple dongle dac with it. If you get something and you can't hear any difference between it and the Apple dongle just save your money. If you want a desktop unit with a really nice knob then get a JDS Labs Element III mk2. If you want fancy then get a RME.

 

[DenverW]

The split between users on this forum, and on Headi-Fi is astounding to me. Everyone there, seemingly rational people, SWEAR that there are audible and distinct differences in tonality between models of amps, and DACs, and combinations thereof.

They also all SWEAR that the HD800s sound better on Tube amps, and should be run on tube amps.

I mean, feel free to see the types of responses I've gotten to my threads:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/schiit-lyr-impressions-thread.964223/page-87 (My comment starts about halfway down the page)

Do the Sennheiser HD800s pair well with a Modius DAC and Lyr Amp from Schitt Audio? What about with the smaller siblings, the Modi DAC and Vali 3 Amp?

Hello everyone, I have been having a hard time discerning what the general consensus is about pairing the Sennheiser HD800s with Schiit Audio equipment. Specifically, I'm looking at buying a Modius DAC and a Lyr Amp, in part because I think it will be neat to experiment with tube sound for...

www.head-fi.org

Tube amps are beloved for the warmth they impart to a sound signature. However, if you are the type of listener who is heavily EQ-ing your headphones anyways, does this make tube amps redundant? Is there still a reason to use Tube Amps with EQ?

Hello everyone, I might be purchasing a pair of Sennheiser HD800s soon, but, admittedly, I don't like the way they sound as much as some other headphones. With EQ, though, I'm able to get exactly the sound I want, and so I'm leaning towards buying the HD800s for some of its other strengths...

www.head-fi.org

Meanwhile everyone here just goes "Measurements, dawg. If it measures good, it is good."

I'm very near burnt-out on the topic from the overwhelming contradiction and differing points of view. Just trying to make ANY decision before I completely burn out, so that I can use my new HD800s.

You're not going to find a satisfactory universal answer on either site. You'll have to pick your poison. It depends on if you want to follow subjective opinions that do not have a backing in science, but have personal experience with the product, or if you'd want to follow measurements based suggestions where many of whom have not heard the product.

I've heard it and I like it vs. I haven't heard it but these alternatives are less expensive and measure better.

 

[Quinton595]

Gods... I'm exhausted. How do you all do this for so many years? I've been diving into this stuff for just a few weeks and I'm already burning out.

I've made up my mind about going with Schiit. Maybe not technically as good as Topping or JDS, but they measure well enough that I won't be able to hear any decrease in quality.

I've made up my mind about buying a Modius DAC instead of an internal DAC card. I'm buying the Modius E version, with the ES9028 chip.

What I cannot for the life of me decide on is whether to get the Lyr+ or the Jotunheim 2.

Spoiler: Reason's I'm Having a Hard Time Deciding

I have read.... so much. And watched reviews, and gone to so many forums, that I now have so much information in my head advocating for both, that I cannot actually decide.

Schiit Lyr+ : Impressions Thread

It makes for a compelling little setup. The Lyr+ is a very good amp and I've also found that it scales up very well with more premium DACs. In my case, a Chord Qutest. If you get a long weekend, take a shot at putting the Yggdrasil in the chain.

www.head-fi.org

Starting halfway down, you'll see my comment on a thread asking for people's opinions between the Lyr+ and the Jotunheim 2.

They make compelling arguments. The Lyr's solid-state mode seems to be at least as good, if not better, than the Jotunheim 2's. In the tube mode, though, everyone talks about better sound, better detail, better soundstage.

And I mean everyone. Across multiple forums, across multiple sites, in written and video form.

I get it, on a scientific level, it just comes down to distortion, frequency response, and other such physical phenomena. It's entirely possible that everything a tube amp does, can be EQ-ed or DSP-ed in. Whether or not I will be able to do that, though, is another matter. In either case, it seems the community consensus is that the HD800s sound better on tubes.

But then, of course, there's the matter that the Lyr+ is hybrid, not OTL, and so some people say it's not very tubey, while other's say you can clearly hear differences when rolling tubes.

Then there's also the consideration that tubes are expensive, so I probably won't actually roll them.

I also understand than we're talking a, what, 10% change of a 5% aspect of the sound of a song -- the source components.

I also understand that placebo plays a huge role here.

But what it comes down to is I found a Lyr+ listing where I can get it to my door for $831 CAD. It is a unit that has been owned by two people, not one, and which comes with three tubes: Westinghouse, RCA, and Raytheon.

Buying a Lyr+ new from Schiit with a 5-year warranty comes to $1072 CAD, with one Tung-Sol premium tube.

Alternatively, I can buy a Jotunheim 2 for somewhere between $400 CAD used, or $677 new from Schiit.

There's also the fact that I want to have the ability to add a Gjallarhorn to the stack one day in the future (~5 years), which means it would have to go UNDER the Lyr, but with enough space to keep itself cool through its passive heatsink.

I have no idea what to do.

 

[Robbo99999]

Gods... I'm exhausted. How do you all do this for so many years? I've been diving into this stuff for just a few weeks and I'm already burning out.

I've made up my mind about going with Schiit. Maybe not technically as good as Topping or JDS, but they measure well enough that I won't be able to hear any decrease in quality.

I've made up my mind about buying a Modius DAC instead of an internal DAC card. I'm buying the Modius E version, with the ES9028 chip.

What I cannot for the life of me decide on is whether to get the Lyr+ or the Jotunheim 2.

Spoiler: Reason's I'm Having a Hard Time Deciding

I have read.... so much. And watched reviews, and gone to so many forums, that I now have so much information in my head advocating for both, that I cannot actually decide.

Schiit Lyr+ : Impressions Thread

It makes for a compelling little setup. The Lyr+ is a very good amp and I've also found that it scales up very well with more premium DACs. In my case, a Chord Qutest. If you get a long weekend, take a shot at putting the Yggdrasil in the chain.

www.head-fi.org

Starting halfway down, you'll see my comment on a thread asking for people's opinions between the Lyr+ and the Jotunheim 2.

They make compelling arguments. The Lyr's solid-state mode seems to be at least as good, if not better, than the Jotunheim 2's. In the tube mode, though, everyone talks about better sound, better detail, better soundstage.

And I mean everyone. Across multiple forums, across multiple sites, in written and video form.

I get it, on a scientific level, it just comes down to distortion, frequency response, and other such physical phenomena. It's entirely possible that everything a tube amp does, can be EQ-ed or DSP-ed in. Whether or not I will be able to do that, though, is another matter. In either case, it seems the community consensus is that the HD800s sound better on tubes.

But then, of course, there's the matter that the Lyr+ is hybrid, not OTL, and so some people say it's not very tubey, while other's say you can clearly hear differences when rolling tubes.

Then there's also the consideration that tubes are expensive, so I probably won't actually roll them.

I also understand than we're talking a, what, 10% change of a 5% aspect of the sound of a song -- the source components.

I also understand that placebo plays a huge role here.

But what it comes down to is I found a Lyr+ listing where I can get it to my door for $831 CAD. It is a unit that has been owned by two people, not one, and which comes with three tubes: Westinghouse, RCA, and Raytheon.

Buying a Lyr+ new from Schiit with a 5-year warranty comes to $1072 CAD, with one Tung-Sol premium tube.

Alternatively, I can buy a Jotunheim 2 for somewhere between $400 CAD used, or $677 new from Schiit.

There's also the fact that I want to have the ability to add a Gjallarhorn to the stack one day in the future (~5 years), which means it would have to go UNDER the Lyr, but with enough space to keep itself cool through its passive heatsink.

I have no idea what to do.

In my opinion you're making this way too complicated for yourself and listening to the "wrong people". You already know my viewpoint though from an earlier post - it virtually doesn't matter what you get as long as measures well here on ASR and it has the features/aesthetics & price that you are after.

 

[majingotan]

Gods... I'm exhausted. How do you all do this for so many years? I've been diving into this stuff for just a few weeks and I'm already burning out.

I've made up my mind about going with Schiit. Maybe not technically as good as Topping or JDS, but they measure well enough that I won't be able to hear any decrease in quality.

I've made up my mind about buying a Modius DAC instead of an internal DAC card. I'm buying the Modius E version, with the ES9028 chip.

What I cannot for the life of me decide on is whether to get the Lyr+ or the Jotunheim 2.

Spoiler: Reason's I'm Having a Hard Time Deciding

I have read.... so much. And watched reviews, and gone to so many forums, that I now have so much information in my head advocating for both, that I cannot actually decide.

Schiit Lyr+ : Impressions Thread

It makes for a compelling little setup. The Lyr+ is a very good amp and I've also found that it scales up very well with more premium DACs. In my case, a Chord Qutest. If you get a long weekend, take a shot at putting the Yggdrasil in the chain.

www.head-fi.org

Starting halfway down, you'll see my comment on a thread asking for people's opinions between the Lyr+ and the Jotunheim 2.

They make compelling arguments. The Lyr's solid-state mode seems to be at least as good, if not better, than the Jotunheim 2's. In the tube mode, though, everyone talks about better sound, better detail, better soundstage.

And I mean everyone. Across multiple forums, across multiple sites, in written and video form.

I get it, on a scientific level, it just comes down to distortion, frequency response, and other such physical phenomena. It's entirely possible that everything a tube amp does, can be EQ-ed or DSP-ed in. Whether or not I will be able to do that, though, is another matter. In either case, it seems the community consensus is that the HD800s sound better on tubes.

But then, of course, there's the matter that the Lyr+ is hybrid, not OTL, and so some people say it's not very tubey, while other's say you can clearly hear differences when rolling tubes.

Then there's also the consideration that tubes are expensive, so I probably won't actually roll them.

I also understand than we're talking a, what, 10% change of a 5% aspect of the sound of a song -- the source components.

I also understand that placebo plays a huge role here.

But what it comes down to is I found a Lyr+ listing where I can get it to my door for $831 CAD. It is a unit that has been owned by two people, not one, and which comes with three tubes: Westinghouse, RCA, and Raytheon.

Buying a Lyr+ new from Schiit with a 5-year warranty comes to $1072 CAD, with one Tung-Sol premium tube.

Alternatively, I can buy a Jotunheim 2 for somewhere between $400 CAD used, or $677 new from Schiit.

There's also the fact that I want to have the ability to add a Gjallarhorn to the stack one day in the future (~5 years), which means it would have to go UNDER the Lyr, but with enough space to keep itself cool through its passive heatsink.

I have no idea what to do.

You’re falling for FOMO seriously. Save money and just get a Midgard with either digital EQ or a Lokius and you’ll have infinitely better sonic experience than those two Schiit amps

 

[Quinton595]

In my opinion you're making this way too complicated for yourself and listening to the "wrong people". You already know my viewpoint though from an earlier post - it virtually doesn't matter what you get as long as measures well here on ASR and it has the features/aesthetics & price that you are after.

When things don't matter and there's no objective winner and it's all up to whim and taste, I struggle to feel confident in any decision. No matter what I choose, it feels like a mistake, because it's unfounded.

 

[Robin L]

When things don't matter and there's no objective winner and it's all up to whim and taste, I struggle to feel confident in any decision. No matter what I choose, it feels like a mistake, because it's unfounded.

I'm coming from the beer-budget sector, so when I bought a DAC and a headphone amp about four years ago, getting the Topping E30 and L30 was an easy decision. I haven't regretted that decision. The two, tiny, black boxes stack neatly on top of each other. I use the headphone amp rarely these days for headphones but use it most of the time as a preamp for my speakers. Adjustment for levels is excellent, sound quality is excellent. The cost was a little under $300 for both boxes. I've owned Schiit products, was not as happy with those as the equivalent Topping products. The Topping L30 can switch between the headphone amp and the preamp stage. There are three different settings for gain. If you look at the specs at the review here at ASR, you'll find that it still has the best SINAD measurements of all headphone amps:

Topping L30 Headphone Amplifier Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the new Topping L30 headphone amplifier. It is a companion to their E30 DAC. I don't have official pricing on it but see it on some sites for US $130. EDIT: I have learned that a few members have had their headphones damaged due to failure of the...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Most recent headphone amp review:

SMSL VMV P2 Headphone Amp Review

This is a review, detailed measurements and listening tests of SMSL VMV P2 balanced stereo headphone amplifier. It was sent to me by the company and costs US $999. The design follows the new look of the VMV D2R DAC. I am not a big fan of the new look but maybe you are. Nice to see the three...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Of course, you'll know what features you'll want, but take into consideration that the best measuring headphone amp (at least as regards signal to noise ratio and distortion) happens to be one of the least expensive. From the limited information in the ASR review of the Sennheiser 800 headphones, there is an inherent upper limit on potential volume of the headphones due to distortion that kicks in early. Most of the distortion is in the bass. I use Sennheiser 650 (Drop 6XX) headphones, have all the volume I want with the Topping L30. It appears that the upper limit of volume for the Sennheiser 800 is the same as the Drop 6XX. Of course, there are other Topping headphone amps and DACs and the Topping D 50 III DAC is an even better choice for a DAC than the E30 as it has onboard EQ. But, again, you know what features you want. See if the gear you're looking for has a review here at ASR and chose accordingly.