Topping E30 vs Schiit Modi+ sound

[Joel G]

I have a question: I have owned a Topping E30 since 2021 (late version with fixed polarity) and recently bought the new Schiit Modi+ (2022) after reading Amir’s review. Both rank close to each other SINAD-wise
and price-wise.

I think they sound very good for the money, but I believe that they sound quite different in color to my ears. I know, I have read many threads where other members immediately ask for recording proof of what I am hearing. I am not attempting to get into that much detail, all I wanted to ask is if anyone knows these two models and have a similar feeling?

E30 is in my ears very detailed, brighter or crispier sounding. Modi+ sounds to me sort of darker, more pleasant or easy going to some extent.

I run them from my MacBook Pro playing Tidal HiFi and after them to a Rega Brio 2017 connected to Troels Gravesen Scanspeak Discovery 861. I have the same feeling when playing music through Chromecast audio connected to the DACs via Toslink. The power supply I use is the same for both (Chromecast standard power supply) and the RCAs to the amp are the same.

I won’t make my first ever post any longer cheers. J

 

[threni]

My E30 isn't crispy, not does it have a different colour to my Schiit or Apple DAC. Unless you mean when you look at them. My Apple DAC is white, whereas my E30 is black. The Schiit DAC is inside my amp so I cannot tell you what colour it is.

Hope this helps.

 

[Joel G]

My E30 isn't crispy, not does it have a different colour to my Schiit or Apple DAC. Unless you mean when you look at them. My Apple DAC is white, whereas my E30 is black. The Schiit DAC is inside my amp so I cannot tell you what colour it is.

Hope this helps.

Both my E30 and Modi+ have the metallic case so the outside color is the same. However I hear all the time that is the inside that counts

 

[Mal]

Topping E30 ... Schiit Modi+ ... E30 is in my ears very detailed, brighter or crispier sounding. Modi+ sounds to me sort of darker, more pleasant or easy going to some extent.

Darko says something similar to you in the following video (15 minutes in...)

Is it all placebo? Can you run a blind test?

My Wharedale Delta 9.0s sound bright with a Topping 10s....

I was thinking of buying a Schiit Loki to see if I could fix things. Would I be better getting a Schiit Modi+? I'll probably go Loki, as I want to play with DSP in other contexts as well, ... then maybe Modi+ if Loki doesn't fix the Wharfedales to my satisfaction. (Or maybe new speakers!)

 

[threni]

Is it all placebo? Can you run a blind test?

I've never watched a "Darko" video but everything I've read about his channel on this site leads me to believe the answer to those questions are "YES!" and "yes, but he won't have" respectively.

My Wharedale Delta 9.0s sound bright with a Topping 10s....

I was thinking of buying a Schiit Loki to see if I could fix things. Would I be better getting a Schiit Modi+? I'll probably go Loki, as I want to play with DSP in other contexts as well, ... then maybe Modi+ if Loki doesn't fix the Wharfedales to my satisfaction. (Or maybe new speakers!)

I have a Loki. It's a great, if somewhat expensive and rather simple tone control; however, if you want meaningful control over any aspect of your system you're going to want something a little less crude. Given that brightness generally means a little too much top end you might be able to get away with just the Loki, otherwise look into parametric equalization.

 

[Joel G]

Darko says something similar to you in the following video (15 minutes in...)

Is it all placebo? Can you run a blind test?

My Wharedale Delta 9.0s sound bright with a Topping 10s....

I was thinking of buying a Schiit Loki to see if I could fix things. Would I be better getting a Schiit Modi+? I'll probably go Loki, as I want to play with DSP in other contexts as well, ... then maybe Modi+ if Loki doesn't fix the Wharfedales to my satisfaction. (Or maybe new speakers!)

Hi Mal, thank you for the video link. He indeed describes almost the same situation, except with a different Schiit DAC model. I am though in the luxurious situation that none of them sound “too bright” or “too dark” in my setup, they are both really good, it’s more like I perceive them with rather different tonal qualities. I might keep switching them every two weeks or so, it’s actually rather refreshing to hear something a bit different after a two week period! But I do prefer the E30 for symphonic works and Modi+ for rock and pop to name an example.

I currently don’t have a qualified buddy to help me with a blind test (there would need to be some leveling since I perceive the Modi+ with a little lower output than the E30 on pure DAC mode). Maybe in a future!

That Loki looks really interesting. Surely one could balance a lot of issues to one’s taste with it. But it costs more than my DACs together I think?

Regards

 

[Hapo]

...I've had a Schitt Modi 3+ since 2021 and just bought a Topping E30 II...how ironical...

...I needed a second DAC and did consider the new Modi +...

...I bought the Topping because it has a higher maximum sampling rate even though I don't have access to any files that take advantage of that...

...maybe it was the pretty orange display...most likely it was the 2 X AK4493 DAC chips...hardware and specs...seemed worth $50...LoL...

...I remember trying to hear the difference between the Schitt Modi 3+ and a defective and expensive Tradutto DAC...

...once I was honest with myself, I realized I was "hearing" the same "improvements" each time I switched DACs...

...methinks this is from me listening more critically in anticipation of hearing inaudible differences...

...in my case there were differences...the Tradutto was defective and measured poorly in relation to the Schitt...but I couldn't tell from listening to it...

...I haven't learned Schitt...

 

[notsodeadlizard]

System:
like new 10 years old Japan-made Rotel amp + like new 10 years old Swiss-made Piega floorstanders
Record: Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart "Ave verum corpus", Chesky Records, 24/192
Both DACs are DACs (means E30 II is in "m - d" mode) and are connected to a non-phono Rotel's AUX preamp input.
There is no audible difference.
And that's good, because there shouldn't be any difference.
Modern DAC ICes are so good that somebody should learn how to destroy their performance in any real design to produce a bad DAC.
(Shiit is better for me because I'm tired of "made in PRC" world, Topping is forgiven because there are Asahi Kasei and Texas Instruments inside only).

 

[Joel G]

Nice to hear your thoughts on these matters. I realised that i might have misposted this thread, since this is Audio Science Review, not audio individual perception review, so my mistake from the very beginning!

I still differ from your opinion in that I do hear differences, at least minimal but they are there between those two (new Modi+ and E30 first version). I have been a professional orchestra musician the past 21 years and am very sensitive to tone colorations, timbres and attacks/decays, so I am not imagining things. But of course it is impossible to print you a test of what I can hear inside my head so all I have is my personal taste of them!

I still think though that the E30 gives me a bit more for my money because of the filters (I ended up in filter 1, I think it improved a lot my liking of this little DAC after I found about filters) plus the possibility of volume control (which I don’t use currently) and the auto switching inputs from standby (very practical) and if not, changing input from the remote control. The Modi+ costed me more because of import fees and taxes (25% where I live) and as I mentioned I think is a very good DAC too, but all is manual and no volume control. So all and all perhaps I will stick to the E30 until I get the rash for new gear.

Warm regards,

J

 

[Joel G]

As everyone will tell you here, sound is not a relevant way to judge audio equipment and all DACs sound the same.

I agree partially. I respect deeply the science behind any measured test, but I still have the free choice to judge which piece of equipment I like the best (sound wise or feature wise) in order to keep.

If all DACs sounded the same we should all buy the cheapest one ever and stop longing for “better” ones or discussing them.

But that’s my opinion and I respect your opinion as well. I just don’t agree with it

 

[Hapo]

I have been a professional orchestra musician the past 21 years and am very sensitive to tone colorations, timbres and attacks/decays, so I am not imagining things. But of course it is impossible to print you a test of what I can hear inside my head so all I have is my personal taste of them!

 

[don'ttrustauthority]

As everyone will tell you here, sound is not a relevant way to judge sound equipment and all DACs sound the same.

All dacs sound the same IF they measure sinad below the transparency number. Otherwise you could hear various distortions that could change the tone of the music very easily.

OP is clear he is not judging the sound, simply noticing that they do not sound identical to his ears.

I have been a professional orchestra musician the past 21 years and am very sensitive to tone colorations, timbres and attacks/decays, so I am not imagining things. But of course it is impossible to print you a test of what I can hear inside my head so all I have is my personal taste of them!

I suspect in other areas you don't require "proof" of others: when asking how the temperature, how food tastes, what color the sky is ... yet with audio you seem confused by audible differences being reported after the fact.

Why the difference?

People can hear differences between amplifiers, fwiw:

Blind Test Part Deux: Schiit Heretic vs Magni+ (with statistical analysis)

Background and part un of the test is here: https://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/magni-3-heresy-and-3-blind-listening.8663/ I think...

www.superbestaudiofriends.org

 

[Joel G]

All dacs sound the same IF they measure sinad below the transparency number. Otherwise you could hear various distortions that could change the tone of the music very easily.

OP is clear he is not judging the sound, simply noticing that they do not sound identical to his ears.



I suspect in other areas you don't require "proof" of others: when asking how the temperature, how food tastes, what color the sky is ... yet with audio you seem confused by audible differences being reported after the fact.

Why the difference?

People can hear differences between amplifiers, fwiw:

Blind Test Part Deux: Schiit Heretic vs Magni+ (with statistical analysis)

Background and part un of the test is here: https://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/magni-3-heresy-and-3-blind-listening.8663/ I think...

www.superbestaudiofriends.org

Hi @don’ttrustauthority, interesting thread. I will read it tonight in peace. Is the later question for me or for @Hapo ? Best regards

 

[Plcamp]

Your perception of what you hear is actually (really) influenced by what you see and what you have previously heard about such products.

You will hear differences that are not real because that’s how human brains work.

Double blind tests, which most folks are not equipped to perform, are therefore required to test the validity of a perceived difference. There is just no other way to do it.

 

[BDWoody]

Double blind tests, which most folks are not equipped to perform, are therefore required to test the validity of a perceived difference. There is just no other way to do it.

Amen.

 

[Joel G]

May I ask you a technical question, I should be receiving my Audiophonics HPA-S400ET the coming week and I plan using the E30 preamp function together with it as a volume control. That should be fine and danger free right?. I used all my budget on that amp so I shall find out how to work around it with what I currently have

 

[Abe_W]

My E30 isn't crispy, not does it have a different colour to my Schiit or Apple DAC. Unless you mean when you look at them. My Apple DAC is white, whereas my E30 is black. The Schiit DAC is inside my amp so I cannot tell you what colour it is.

Hope this helps.

All you ever needed was your apple dac. Sell the rest and rock on with the apple dac. It is the best ever!

 

[Abe_W]

All dacs sound the same IF they measure sinad below the transparency number. Otherwise you could hear various distortions that could change the tone of the music very easily.

OP is clear he is not judging the sound, simply noticing that they do not sound identical to his ears.



I suspect in other areas you don't require "proof" of others: when asking how the temperature, how food tastes, what color the sky is ... yet with audio you seem confused by audible differences being reported after the fact.

Why the difference?

People can hear differences between amplifiers, fwiw:

Blind Test Part Deux: Schiit Heretic vs Magni+ (with statistical analysis)

Background and part un of the test is here: https://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/magni-3-heresy-and-3-blind-listening.8663/ I think...

www.superbestaudiofriends.org

All DACs sound different and all amps sound different. If a guy can't hear any difference, it means that he has terrible 2 dollar speakers with terrible setup+placement in a terrible untreated room. It could also mean that he is deaf as fk and simply unfit for listening to music with any level of fidelity.
Such a guy should just turn it off, save electricity, save earth, save in electricity costs and start dancing to imaginary music. Non-stop dancing to imaginary music could be the only solution for him.

 

[delta76]

All DACs sound different and all amps sound different. If a guy can't hear any difference, it means that he has terrible 2 dollar speakers with terrible setup+placement in a terrible untreated room. It could also mean that he is deaf as fk and simply unfit for listening to music with any level of fidelity.
Such a guy should just turn it off, save electricity, save earth, save in electricity costs and start dancing to imaginary music. Non-stop dancing to imaginary music could be the only solution for him.

Please tell me you forgot /s

 

[rongon]

This ongoing debate about whether or not DACs sound different from each other is pretty amusing. People state that since recently designed, good quality DAC ICs are all so near-perfect that any differences you hear can only be due to placebo effect, inside your head. Well... How many of these DAC ICs are directly connected to the inputs of your amplifier so you hear nothing but the DAC IC itself? Are you sure there is nothing else in the signal chain between the (near-perfect) DAC IC and the analog inputs of your amplifier or preamplifier?