Topping D90SE Review (Balanced DAC)

[Katji]

Sorry about the OT but...

After 55 pages and > 1000 comments, here is an executive summary:
Dear John,

• Thank you for designing this great product.
• You understand, of course, it is too good to be true, so we have to scrutinize it a bit, therefore we will question every engineering, cost, production, quality control or other decision that you made while developing this product. And if you are kind enough to answer, we won't even say thanks. Because, you see, we speak directly to DAC / speaker / amplifier designers 5 times a week, so it's standard practice for us.
• And, needless to say, Amir is obliged to perform every possible measurement for every possible input, horizontally, vertically, diagonally, and upside down.
• And when you have answered all our engineering questions, we will criticize you, of course, because the form factor is tiny, or the display is too small/bright/dim/rectangular, or because the shiny black finish is, well, fingerprint and dust prone.
• Oh, and because you did not include additional features A, B, C and D like your competitor has.
• Finally, IF we are satisfied with all of the above, we will look to buy your great product but only when it is on heavy discounting for Black Friday / Red Tuesday / Easter Sunday. And if availability is low on such days, we will curse the company production line for being too slow.
• Perhaps, John, you should have priced your product at $8999 instead, so that you would only have to deal with a handful of enquiries instead of thousands.

Yours sincerely,
The community

As a software developer, I used to support the retail store support help desk team. (Not like the help desk you call as a consumer, the ISP and so on, this is technical.)
They are very underpaid.
And the various business users and so on... sometimes management would bring up the rule that users must not contact us directly, they must speak to the manager/s or put in a change request. But by the end of the day, it was "Oh, X, please speak to Xyz about...' again.
Sometimes that is why programmers have to work at night too.

 

[Katji]

Do you have scientific proof of that, or is it just your subjective opinion?

It's just pseudo-science.

 

[Category 5]

@JohnYang1997 Thanks for that. Let me put two thoughts in the pot for future releases. As I've stated, professional level output would be admirable and increase usage in studios and mastering houses (10-12V output). Also, I miss the digital output from the DX7s. That was a very useful feature I'd like to see make a comeback.

 

[gags11]

I have the unit on order and had a question for @JohnYang1997 or anyone else that can answer.

The D90SE will be used downstream of MiniDsp SHD Studio, and the volume will be controlled with the SHD dsp. Should I have the D90SE in 5volt DAC mode or pre-mode with volume curtailed 1-2db? The reason I ask is whether the pre-mode with slightly lowered volume will provide some headroom. Or is this not an issue?

thanks in advance!

 

[Wps998]

Would like to see some examples. Going from onboard on my PC to a dedicated dac(first a cheap dongle, to a jds ol dac, then a e30) with using an atom amp, made a substantial improvement. So I find it interesting you couldnt hear a difference in dacs. I see lots of measurements on dacs and topping and others coming out with what measurements show as improvement, but if all dacs sound the same, what is even the point of all this?

In good humor, how we tie ourselves up in intellectual knots..This a good question actually. Especially the claim level matched and blind, all and most dacs sound the same or cannot be differentiated, please explain what is the point of measuring the gear, ranking them, basing on a purchasing decision..hehehe

Anyways, about the D90SE, for those who have had the pleasure to own it already, may i kindly ask to share some sonic subjective inpressions in comparison to another dac that you own. It measures super duper that part is pretty obvious, but some subjective comparos including tracks listened to will be much appreciated. I'm trying to decide whether to buy it.
Thanks

 

[Marc v E]

After I listened to the dx7pro I could only describe it at as transparent, fast, showing the recording as it is and getting out of the way. However, that was compared to what I listened to before. That is the nad dac/pre c510 which obviously has not such a transparent character (especially noticable in the bass).

The dx7pro imposes no character of itself to the recording. I suspect something similar can be said of the d90se. Not sure if I could hear a difference between the 2 but just based on the fact it can also be used as a very good pre makes it a great buy imo. I will buy one in a few weeks as soon as I sold the nad.

 

[elvisizer]

@JohnYang1997 Thanks for that. Let me put two thoughts in the pot for future releases. As I've stated, professional level output would be admirable and increase usage in studios and mastering houses (10-12V output). Also, I miss the digital output from the DX7s. That was a very useful feature I'd like to see make a comeback.

2nd on this- only thing I miss from my ol' mytek is 10v output. My OCD keeps making me tweak the input trim on my HPA-4 now with the d90se

 

[Harmonie]

I think you can mount it horizontally.

Hi @JohnYang1997

I had a similar question; my intension was to find an extender cable, or components to extend the BT antenna away from it's back towards the side of the gear.

Do such smaller coaxial cable adapters exist in the market ?

 

[Category 5]

Hi @JohnYang1997

I had a similar question; my intension was to find an extender cable, or components to extend the BT antenna away from it's back towards the side of the gear.

Do such smaller coaxial cable adapters exist in the market ?
View attachment 138537

https://smile.amazon.com/Superbat-c...pY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU&th=1

 

[elvisizer]

had my first problem with the d90se today- tried to unplug a toslink cable, port was so tight the fiber optic was pulled out. This was a generic cable, looks like the connector was just crimped on, but that toslink port on my d90 is TIGHT!

 

[ShiZo]

had my first problem with the d90se today- tried to unplug a toslink cable, port was so tight the fiber optic was pulled out. This was a generic cable, looks like the connector was just crimped on, but that toslink port on my d90 is TIGHT!

O_O

 

[JohnYang1997]

had my first problem with the d90se today- tried to unplug a toslink cable, port was so tight the fiber optic was pulled out. This was a generic cable, looks like the connector was just crimped on, but that toslink port on my d90 is TIGHT!

Oh no. Don't force it.
Similar situation has happened to me two times before although didn't end up with catastrophic situation. One with AP, one with our own device.
It's the cable being hooked onto the socket, it's not that the socket is too tight. You should just move around and seek for a correct angle and position.

 

[elvisizer]

oh it's no big deal that cable was trash anyway . . .but I'll see if I can find an angle to pull from that lets it release easier, thanks john!

 

[Mad Bill]

My experience with the D90SE: I live in Taipei and bought from the distributor. I have been using an NAD M51, which I bought based on reviews and measurements -- I liked the 21-bit resolution -- and I've been happy with it for years. But the D90SE measures even better, so ... I was curious. But the first unit didn't work, and I exchanged it for another, which also didn't work. The sound would simply cut off for a second or two at random intervals -- sometimes after 10 seconds, sometimes after 5 minutes. My source is an NAD M50.2 server, and the problem continued with both AES and coaxial inputs, and also in both pre-amp and DAC modes. So I'm going to return the second unit today and get my money back.

My impression of the sound is that, yes, it's just a tiny, tiny bit more detailed and clean than the NAD M51. Bass weight and extension in particular is impressive. But there's not much of a soundstage; not much depth to it. The NAD M51 isn't necessarily known for that, but combined with the Buchardt Audio S300, it does pretty well. I just didn't hear the same soundstage with the Topping.

Any comments on the possible source of the above problem would be interesting.

 

[ShiZo]

My experience with the D90SE: I live in Taipei and bought from the distributor. I have been using an NAD M51, which I bought based on reviews and measurements -- I liked the 21-bit resolution -- and I've been happy with it for years. But the D90SE measures even better, so ... I was curious. But the first unit didn't work, and I exchanged it for another, which also didn't work. The sound would simply cut off for a second or two at random intervals -- sometimes after 10 seconds, sometimes after 5 minutes. My source is an NAD M50.2 server, and the problem continued with both AES and coaxial inputs, and also in both pre-amp and DAC modes. So I'm going to return the second unit today and get my money back.

My impression of the sound is that, yes, it's just a tiny, tiny bit more detailed and clean than the NAD M51. Bass weight and extension in particular is impressive. But there's not much of a soundstage; not much depth to it. The NAD M51 isn't necessarily known for that, but combined with the Buchardt Audio S300, it does pretty well. I just didn't hear the same soundstage with the Topping.

Any comments on the possible source of the above problem would be interesting.

I've only been using usb in. Should i check if mine does the same with other connections or does it do that with usb too? Because mine has been really rock solid so far.

 

[Mad Bill]

I've only been using usb in. Should i check if mine does the same with other connections or does it do that with usb too?

Sorry, can't tell you. The M50.2 only has AES/EBU, coaxial, optical, and HDMI outputs. No USB.

 

[JohnYang1997]

I've only been using usb in. Should i check if mine does the same with other connections or does it do that with usb too?

Sorry, can't tell you. The M50.2 only has AES/EBU, coaxial, optical, and HDMI outputs. No USB.

What other DACs that you have that can work with your M50.2?

 

[Addy]

Or 2 speaker technology is to the end and moving to Dolby atmos.

 

[ShiZo]

My experience with the D90SE: I live in Taipei and bought from the distributor. I have been using an NAD M51, which I bought based on reviews and measurements -- I liked the 21-bit resolution -- and I've been happy with it for years. But the D90SE measures even better, so ... I was curious. But the first unit didn't work, and I exchanged it for another, which also didn't work. The sound would simply cut off for a second or two at random intervals -- sometimes after 10 seconds, sometimes after 5 minutes. My source is an NAD M50.2 server, and the problem continued with both AES and coaxial inputs, and also in both pre-amp and DAC modes. So I'm going to return the second unit today and get my money back.

My impression of the sound is that, yes, it's just a tiny, tiny bit more detailed and clean than the NAD M51. Bass weight and extension in particular is impressive. But there's not much of a soundstage; not much depth to it. The NAD M51 isn't necessarily known for that, but combined with the Buchardt Audio S300, it does pretty well. I just didn't hear the same soundstage with the Topping.

Any comments on the possible source of the above problem would be interesting.

I would take a shot and say it's could just interplay with your other component.

I noticed this with my rme back in the day. My cheaper dac had a better soundstage. I always guessed maybe the other is just exaggerating the soundstage. If a dac has better numbers across the board, even crosstalk, then maybe that's not the way the recording actual sounds and it's your other dac imparting a sound signature.

Looking at the other dac, if I am to believe the numbers, it's a pretty well performing dac as well (audibly transparent). Crosstalk with your nad is 123 and the d90se is 140 both at 1khz. I'm not sure if crosstalk is what would cause something to have greater soundstage, I've been trying to find out exactly it's audibility. But the d90se beats the nad in every measurable category, so it is strange.

 

[Mad Bill]

What other DACs that you have that can work with your M50.2?

Thanks for your reply and question. The NAD M51 is the only DAC I've had for a number of years, dating back to before my purchase of the M50.2. May I ask, is there anything about the output of the M50.2 that would be significantly different from a computer or other source? How are you looking at this question? (I don't have a high level of technical knowledge.)