TOPPING D90 III、TOPPING D50 III

[Rja4000]

For 1kHz THD though, only 44.1kHz is giving issue, as @yys310 confirmed.

The plot at 44.1kHz is interrupted when it failed at -4dBFS.

 

[yys310]

Is it normal to see THD+N performs differently at different sampling frequency?

 

[Rja4000]

Is it normal to see THD+N performs differently at different sampling frequency?

That's because I have kept low pass limit at SF/2 here.
So the bandwidth taken into account for noise is getting wider with each doubling of SF.
So noise is getting approx. 3dB higher with each step up.

 

[gvl]

Is it normal to see THD+N performs differently at different sampling frequency?

May not be what we’re seeing in that plot, but DAC chips show increased THD at higher sampling rates.

 

[Sokel]

May not be what we’re seeing in that plot, but DAC chips show increased THD at higher sampling rates.

In general?
Not what I have seen except from some increased noise with DSD.
Sometimes though there are some differences in the families of frequencies (44.1Khz and 48Khz and their multiples) 'cause of the different clocks probably.

Khadas Tone1 for example measures the same at all the 44.1Khz up to 352.8Khz and 48Khz up to 384Khz with the distortion pattern staying the same.

The way @Rja4000 measures it (SF/2 low-passed) is so to avoid images but have an impact in noise measurement as the bandwidth is broader.

 

[Rja4000]

The way @Rja4000 measures it (SF/2 low-passed) is so to avoid images but have an impact in noise measurement as the bandwidth is broader.

I wanted to show clearly each Sampling frequency result
So chosing FS/2 was an easy way to keep them distinct.

 

[Bleib]

For 1kHz THD though, only 44.1kHz is giving issue, as @yys310 confirmed.

View attachment 362417

The plot at 44.1kHz is interrupted when it failed at -4dBFS.

Thanks for this info, since I use optical with my DAC I cancelled my D50 III order for now.

 

[yys310]

Hi @Rja4000
How large is the DC offset you get for your D50III?
mine is 0.14mV & 0.37mV for RCA out and 0.8mV & 0.46mV for TRS output.

 

[BladerunnerSC50]

When using SPDIF input (Coax or Toslink), the sound gets broken on mine around -5dBFS.


Could anyone with the D50 III try that, please ?
(@SloPoke , @BladerunnerSC50,...)
I'd like to know if only mine is broken. (That could be a -very weird- hardware issue).
I rather think it's firmware related though.
@JohnYang1997

I don't know if I can be helpful with my setup. But I'll give it a try.
My player is a WIIM Mini. Normally my Toslink is set to full level and maximum resolution in the menu. So in this case 192Khz/24 bits.
If I set it to 44.1Khz and 16 / 24 bits and the output level can be adjusted from 0 - 100%, nothing changes in my sound when I change the volume. What value in % should I pay particular attention to?

 

[Rja4000]

Around 50%

 

[Sokel]

I don't know if I can be helpful with my setup. But I'll give it a try.
My player is a WIIM Mini. Normally my Toslink is set to full level and maximum resolution in the menu. So in this case 192Khz/24 bits.
If I set it to 44.1Khz and 16 / 24 bits and the output level can be adjusted from 0 - 100%, nothing changes in my sound when I change the volume. What value in % should I pay particular attention to?

It's not the level you adjust with D50's volume control,it's the level you send to it by the Wiim.
That is the way you should test it.
D50 III at full volume and Wiim at about 50-60% with a test tone if possible.

(make sure you don't break anything,start low! )

 

[Rja4000]

I don't know if I can be helpful with my setup. But I'll give it a try.
My player is a WIIM Mini.

Is your Wiim setup to play WAV files from a server you have at home ?

If that's the case, you could give the following test a try:
1. Download REW (if you don't have it yet) and install it on a PC, then start it.
2. Open the Generator
3. "Save to file" a sine 1kHz at -5dBFS 44.1kHz 24 bits format, with enough repetitions (I use a 30s file)
4. Copy this file to you server
5. Lower very much your amplifier volume (-30dB or less)
6. Play the file from Wiim at max volume from your streamer (but with your amp at low volume) at 44.1kHz 24 bits through Toslink

If you have the same issue, you should hear the sine wave (mid-high picthed "beep") and very audible crackles and clicks.

 

[BladerunnerSC50]

It's not the level you adjust with D50's volume control,it's the level you send to it by the Wiim.
That is the way you should test it.
D50 III at full volume and Wiim at about 50-60% with a test tone if possible.

(make sure you don't break anything,start low! )

This is what I did. I controlled the volume via WIIM. Not with the D50 III.
However, I didn't start at 50%, but rather from 70 - 100%.

If I have time, I'll test the whole thing again tomorrow morning.

@Rja4000 I only use the Wiim as a pure streamer.

 

[gvl]

In general?
Not what I have seen except from some increased noise with DSD.
Sometimes though there are some differences in the families of frequencies (44.1Khz and 48Khz and their multiples) 'cause of the different clocks probably.

Khadas Tone1 for example measures the same at all the 44.1Khz up to 352.8Khz and 48Khz up to 384Khz with the distortion pattern staying the same.

The way @Rja4000 measures it (SF/2 low-passed) is so to avoid images but have an impact in noise measurement as the bandwidth is broader.

Well, maybe not. I thought I saw it in DAC datasheets but now see that most manufacturers don't even spec THD separately from THD+N across sampling rates, if they do it at all. The THD+N does take a hit, but that's probably from a wider measurement bandwidth. This is for AKM4499.

 

[Sokel]

Well, maybe not. I thought I saw it in DAC datasheets but now see that most manufacturers don't even spec THD separately from THD+N across sampling rates, if they do it at all. The THD+N does take a hit, but that's probably from a wider measurement bandwidth. This is for AKM4499.

View attachment 362482

Yes,distortion is the same (-124db) noise gets worst by 3db with each doubling of measuring bandwidth as @Rja4000 already said.
But measured at 20-20Khz is the same,it would make no difference to us,is just the method that changes.

 

[gvl]

Yes,distortion is the same (-124db) noise gets worst by 3db with each doubling of measuring bandwidth as @Rja4000 already said.
But measured at 20-20Khz is the same,it would make no difference to us,is just the method that changes.

Yes, but here is an instance where the same 20khz bw is used yet the THD+N declines at higher Fs, which seemingly indicates that the THD itself takes a hit, if I'm reading this correctly anyway...

 

[Sokel]

Yes, but here is an instance where the same 20khz bw is used yet the THD+N declines at higher Fs, which seemingly indicates that the THD itself takes a hit, if I'm reading this correctly anyway...

View attachment 362497

View attachment 362498

Doesn't state the bandwidth (thought is does state apogee LPF for THD+N which is practically the same as the rest of the data sheets which they double it) and what we see is exactly the same 3db hit in noise probably due to noise shaping.

Don't all DACs are as good all the way up thought,some (much) older ones get a good hit near their limits (in terms of noise) .

 

[Oldson]

i am looking to sell my Qutest dac and have been considering many much cheaper options, one being the D50 III.

apart from the cost, the main thing i dislike most about the Qutest is the use of a usb-c connector for power.
i notice the D50 III has this also and another for the usb signal.
am i the only person on this planet who has issues regarding this connector (usb-c) ?
it just does not fill me with any confidence ragarding longevity as it is just too feeble imo.
thoughts?

 

[Sokel]

i am looking to sell my Qutest dac and have been considering many much cheaper options, one being the D50 III.

apart from the cost, the main thing i dislike most about the Qutest is the use of a usb-c connector for power.
i notice the D50 III has this also and another for the usb signal.
am i the only person on this planet who has issues regarding this connector (usb-c) ?
it just does not fill me with any confidence ragarding longevity as it is just too feeble imo.
thoughts?

I had the same concern until I realized the abuse this connector takes on our phones and yet it works.
The problem is the uncertified crappy cables that come with it,countless stories about not working/working plugged in one way but not the other way around,etc.
A decent one and all is fine I think.

 

[cheapmessiah]

Its probably been answered but reading the last pages I might have missed it, id the PEQ stored into the device, at least the one preset thats active?