Thoughts on tubed preamps?

[SIY]

Take it for what it is worth...

I have used a Sony Uda-1 integrated preamp/amp/headphone for 15 years now...got it for free so...why not.
It doesn't measure well when I checked a few months ago...so decided it was time to make some changes.

So...on a whim...I bought a cheap little Aiyima T8 single tube preamp.

All I can say is...there was an immediate difference...same track...same setup...same controls...volume (pre at 99).
You get used to your gear...I never thought the Sony was 'thin'. But when the tube kicked in...it went to a deeper edge.

It was just better.

My wife is very non plussed by it all...she likes music but...gear...big meh.
Even she grudgingly commented that it sounded more full...that's not a blind test...it's a negative test.

The Sony is gone now...but not forgotten. Back in it's box...sleeping.
I'm playing around with hybrid tubepreamp/SSamp for kicks. It's just fun.

The wife was a nice touch.

 

[tw99]

Take it for what it is worth...

I have used a Sony Uda-1 integrated preamp/amp/headphone for 15 years now...got it for free so...why not.
It doesn't measure well when I checked a few months ago...so decided it was time to make some changes.

So...on a whim...I bought a cheap little Aiyima T8 single tube preamp.

All I can say is...there was an immediate difference...same track...same setup...same controls...volume (pre at 99).
You get used to your gear...I never thought the Sony was 'thin'. But when the tube kicked in...it went to a deeper edge.

It was just better.

My wife is very non plussed by it all...she likes music but...gear...big meh.
Even she grudgingly commented that it sounded more full...that's not a blind test...it's a negative test.

The Sony is gone now...but not forgotten. Back in it's box...sleeping.
I'm playing around with hybrid tubepreamp/SSamp for kicks. It's just fun.

Please tell us she heard the difference from the kitchen?

 

[Gorgonzola]

A hi-fi amplifier is SUPPOSED to be "a straight wire with gain" with no sound characteristics of it's own (except for tone controls, etc.). And, you don't want the sound changing unpredictably as the tubes age, or when they eventually have to be replaced. And you don't want every amp coming off the assembly line to have a different sound.

That's what I believed when I first became enthusiastic for hi-fi in the early '70s. Personally I still believe that but the trend back to tube equipment that took off in the '80s and '90s gradually convinced me that it was NOT what a lot of audiophiles actually wanted.

"Harsh" was the sort of adjective they applied many solid state amps with (for the time) excellent THD test scores. Many audiophile denounced THD as "meaningless" -- very many still do. I can only say that my Phase Linear 400 was not only harsh but also quite opaque, though I obstinately refused to acknowledge it for a sad couple of decades. If I were pressed for a theory as to why these good THD scoring S/S sounded that way, it would be because they produced relatively high amounts of high-order harmonics due to the use of some, but insufficient, negative feedback. By contrast tube amps almost universally had much higher THD but the harmonic were dominate by 2nd and/or 3rd order distortions.

My Purifi amp today doesn't sound "harsh" but does sound highly resolving and dynamic -- of course it has essentially zero higher order harmonics above a very low noise floor.

I'll admit to using a tube preamp nowadays. Curiously it is one disdained by most tube enthusiasts as being too solid state-like.

 

[egellings]

For most people, though, Hi-Fi is not a science; it's just a fun pastime, and it can be enjoyed without knowing much about how it works.

 

[NiagaraPete]

I can’t think of anything positive to say so on the negative. Why in the world would anyone want a distortion factory in near front end of a system?

 

[egellings]

Because it sounds good to him (her) and reinforces their beliefs about it. And again, a tube amp or preamp does not have to be a distortion factory if not so desired and can be designed to turn in a creditable performance. Of course, the next question would be, well then, why bother? Why? because it's my little Fi-fi. Nothing's too good for my little Fi-Fi. Do you understand? N-N-Nothing! It's belief rather than science driven, and since all it does is provide subjective pleasure and is not keeping his implanted pacemaker going at the right pace, then who cares? Let him enjoy the damn thing, and I'll go back to my Topping setup.

 

[DonR]

Please tell us she heard the difference from the kitchen?

I would like to see some research into optimal spousal placement.

 

[Rednaxela]

Double blind!

 

[antcollinet]

I would like to see some research into optimal spousal placement.

I'm pretty certain it is half way between the counter-top and the door. She must have a bread-knife in hand, since she has just been distracted from making a sandwich for her man, by the many veils she's just heard lifted from the music.

 

[MattHooper]

My thoughts: Still luvin' my CJ tube pre-amp. I thought buying a Benchmark LA4 might wean me from it, but I ain't parting with the CJ any time soon.

 

[mhardy6647]

Please tell us she heard the difference from the kitchen?

To ask the question is to answer it.

 

[CanisDirus]

I would like to see some research into optimal spousal placement.

It's not a spousal thing.

It's having someone listen who doesn't give a sh*t.

You'll get a more honest opinion...on most issues.

 

[DonR]

It's not a spousal thing.

It's having someone listen who doesn't give a sh*t.

You'll get a more honest opinion...on most issues.

It will still be merely an opinion. BTW, it's a reference to a running joke.

 

[Soandso]

I would like to see some research into optimal spousal placement.

By it's very nature in the matrix spousal placement is of a second order.

 

[CanisDirus]

It will still be merely an opinion. BTW, it's a reference to a running joke.

Okay...gotcha on the running joke.
But we all know tubes add to music...so the opinion is valid.
There is a very audible difference when you introduce tubes into an solid state system.
Now whether folks like that...there's where the opinion kicks in...it's all personal.

Edit: I should say that perhaps some systems don't show it as much. Mine sure did...instantly...like a switch.

 

[SIY]

But we all know tubes add to music...so the opinion is valid.
There is a very audible difference when you introduce tubes into an solid state system.
Now whether folks like that...there's where the opinion kicks in...it's all personal.

We all "know" that when we peek. Ears only, not so much.

Unless you actually have evidence?

 

[antcollinet]

Okay...gotcha on the running joke.
But we all know tubes add to music...so the opinion is valid.
There is a very audible difference when you introduce tubes into an solid state system.
Now whether folks like that...there's where the opinion kicks in...it's all personal.

Edit: I should say that perhaps some systems don't show it as much. Mine sure did...instantly...like a switch.

Tubes don't add to music. If they are badly implented - or if the designer intended it (pretty much the same thing) - they distort music.

 

[Mnyb]

For most people, though, Hi-Fi is not a science; it's just a fun pastime, and it can be enjoyed without knowing much about how it works.

Oh yes but why do some get so extremely upset and hostile , when someone do point out how it actually works ?

 

[Haider]

All I got say these 'wire with gain' chap's is: -
(i) Why do you not do flat response speakers?
(ii) Why don't you get your room treated so that it does not colour the music?

I like the Harman target curve and I'm unapologetic about it. Soon as you switch your sound system on, the room colours the music. What's the end product you've achieved with 'wire with gain' same as us, coloured music. We made the conscious decision to colour ours to our preference.

 

[CanisDirus]

Tubes don't add to music. If they are badly implented - or if the designer intended it (pretty much the same thing) - they distort music.

Yes, the distortion is exactly why you can hear a difference between tubes and solid state.

I think solid state adherents are getting distortion a bit off.
Distortion with tubes is a harmonic distortion. The brain likes it.
Solid state distortion is completely different...and never sounds good.

They aren't comparable.