This is 2022: Why still obsession with USB interface?

[radiogram]

These security concerns do apply.

If UPNP is enabled on your NAT firewall, devices on your LAN are vulnerable to attack. Additionally, if any other device on your LAN becomes compromised with malware, that malware has the ability to open inbound ports on your NAT firewall.

You don't have to take my word for it.
https://www.howtogeek.com/122487/htg-explains-is-upnp-a-security-risk/
https://lifehacker.com/disable-upnp-on-your-wireless-router-already-1844012366
If you search for your router model # and "disable UNPN" you will probably find instructions, as it is often enabled by default.

Home routers with UPNP have been around as long as USB. Home routers with UPNP and DLNA (for hosting media on a USB drive) have also been common for over 15 years.

You don't have to take my word for it.
https://www.howtogeek.com/122487/htg-explains-is-upnp-a-security-risk/
https://lifehacker.com/disable-upnp-on-your-wireless-router-already-1844012366
If you search for your router model # and "disable UNPN" you will probably find instructions, as it is often enabled by default.

Home routers with UPNP have been around as long as USB. Home routers with UPNP and DLNA (for hosting media on a USB drive) have also been common for over 15 years.

@Fazeshift - I apologize for my hasty crass reply. But I was thinking about the LAN settings as the use case in context here is UPNP streaming within your Private home LAN. In that context there is no UPNP to enable/disable on the router's LAN settings for this use case. So I checked my router settings again and saw the UPNP under WAN tab and then realised that you must have referred to the UPNP setting under WAN. This setting as it turns out is needed only to allow/disallow devices outside your home network to come in and access any of your UPNP device inside your Private Home LAN. Since the use case in context here is purely within the Private Home LAN, this WAN settings can be turned off without any impact on your private UPNP streaming. Even streaming from internet into your home should work with this disabled. So, the security issue you pointed out can be avoided by turning off the WAN UPNP without impacting your Local UPNP. Once again my apologies.

 

[Multicore]

Ethernet or Wifi is a connection between computers. USB is a connection between a computer and a peripheral device, such as a DAC.

So Ethernet or Wifi allows you to send the digital music on one computer to a remote one over a network while USB is a standard way of connecting a either the local or remote computer to a DAC. The USB connection may be hidden inside a device that integrates the computer and DAC.

Horses for courses. I don't think it's a problem of obsession.

 

[radiogram]

Regarding your "instead of DLNA/UPNP" and "this is 2022"

How do I send music from Apple Music, Amazon Music HD, Spotify, Tidal, Qobuz using DLNA/UPnP ?

With my iPad connected to my DAC with USB, it is possible. With UPnP, not possible...

Agreed. But many commercial streamers that do DLNA also support Spotify, Tidal and Qobuz. You can check out for example Blusesound node. As far as Apple Music and Amazon you would use Airplay which again most streamers support.

 

[Music1969]

You can check out for example Blusesound node.

I have Bluesound devices around the house so I'm aware of how crap UPnP, in daily practical use

As far as Apple Music and Amazon you would use Airplay which again most streamers support.

Why would I use Airplay with Amazon Music HD when I can cast 24/192 bit perfectly to a WiiM Mini ?

UPnP is not 2022 ;-)

USB is very much still 2022

 

[mhardy6647]

NAS file storage is another story because NAS' are typically very noisy.

Curious about this: do you mean physical noise or noise on the reproduced (decoded) data stream?

 

[radiogram]

I have Bluesound devices around the house so I'm aware of how crap UPnP, in daily practical use


Why would I use Airplay with Amazon Music HD when I can cast 24/192 bit perfectly to a WiiM Mini ?

UPnP is not 2022 ;-)

USB is very much still 2022

Valid point to justify relevance of USB. I just saw that Bluesound and Denon streamers support AmazonHD. But for Apple HiRes yes USB appears to be the only option.

 

[EJ3]

If I (as an individual from my sleeping quarters on a NAVY ship) have been able to use the unsecured (no password needed) Wi-Fi from grocery stores and other businesses 3-5 miles away on the shore of islands that we were passing by during their closed hours (and sometimes during their normal operating hours) for my email and other communications via a small pizza box sized Wi-Fi antenna and (legal in some areas for certain uses) a 1 watt Wi-Fi transceiver USB connection to a laptop, why couldn't someone with nefarious intent get into someone else's computer through any radio based entrance (DLNA, etc) and do what they want inside that persons computer.
THE ANSWER IS THAT THEY CAN. And through any internet of things connection also.
They can easily hack a car fob radio entry system from a football field away to take the car, so...
That is why my connections are hard wired from the entrance to my home through my 1970's-1990's stereo gear hooked to my modern oPPo 205 UDP & 4K TV. Nothing in my home is not hardwired.
It makes it more difficult (for nefarious intent people.
My intercom & baby monitor system is hardwired & is it's own system (it's also tube based), nothing in my home uses radio waves to connect to other stuff in my home.
That limits what can happen to those that are capable of physically getting into my things. (a small subset of nefarious people).

 

[Music1969]

Valid point to justify relevance of USB. I just saw that Bluesound and Denon streamers support AmazonHD. But for Apple HiRes yes USB appears to be the only option.

The latest model Bluesound Node (N130 model) received a firmware update to enable it's USB port for audio out to USB DAC.

If you want to use the Amazon app and not go through a 3rd party, you can't do it with Bluesound and Denon streamers, only WiiM Mini as I mentioned before...

And anyway, no UPnP in this discussion, in 2022.

 

[Raindog123]

In Networking 101 they teach you about ”layered” connectivity architecture. Eg, the “OSI model protocol stack” (google it). A layered model differentiates between connectivity layers — physical, datalink, networking/routing , …, application — and defines their functions.

Related to your question, the ethernet (IEEE 802.3), wifi (802.11), usb — all are (or have) a “physical layer” and a “datalink” components — whose job is to (a) connect physical devices and (b) manage/maintain the quality of this connection respectively…. Next (“above it”) wound be the “networking“ layer — whose job is to deliver data across multiple, sometimes dissimilar connections (aka “routing”, ether static or by using dynamic routing protocols). Again, this routing is useful if you deliver data (any data) across multiple “hops” of the network, but is unneeded/unused in simple “peer-to-peer” connections…

Now, the UPnP (and DLNA) are both ”higher level, “application layer” protocols (functions) whose job is essentially to discover various devices capable of doing multimedia (eg, audio) and being able to talk to each other — both by defining (1) common data formats and translating between them and (2) common controls (high-level controls that is — start/stop songs, adjust volume, give me the playlist). UPnP runs on top of lower “connectivity” components — Ethernet, wifi, USB, Bluetooth, NFC, …. Can use any and every of them, depending on the availability and additional functionality needed (such as routing). But the jobs of the two are distinctly different — delivering bits/data vs managing [multimedia] application interoperability.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Curious about this: do you mean physical noise or noise on the reproduced (decoded) data stream?

Physical noise only. That is why I locate my NAS drives far away from the music system and beyond the practical reach of USB.

 

[Music1969]

Curious about this: do you mean physical noise or noise on the reproduced (decoded) data stream?

Acoustic noise of NAS is real.

Can't have a NAS inside listening room.

 

[radiogram]

In the Networking 101 they teach you about “layered” connectivity architecture. Eg, “OSI model protocol stack” (google it). Layered model differentiates between the connectivity layers — physical, datalink, networking/routing , …, application — and defines their functions.

Related to your question, the ethernet (IEEE 802.3), wifi (802.11), usb — all are (or have) a “physical layer” “and “datalink” components - whose job is to (a) connect physical devices and (b) manage/maintain the quality of this connection…. Next (“above it”) wound be the “networking“ layer — whose job is to deliver data across multiple, sometimes dissimilar connections (aka “routing”, ether static or by using dynamic routing protocols). Again, this routing is useful if you deliver data (any data) across multiple “hops” of the network, but is unneeded/unused in simple “peer-to-peer” connections…

Now, the UPnP (and DLNA) are both ”higher level, “application layer” protocols (functions) whose job is essentially to discover various devices capable of doing multimedia (eg, audio) and being able to talk to each other — both by (1) defining common data formats and translating between them, and (2) common controls (high level controls that is — start/stop songs, adjust volume, give me the playlist). UPnP runs on top of lower “connectivity” components — Ethernet, wifi, USB, Bluetooth, NFC, …. Can use any and every of them, depending on availability and additional functionality needed (as routing). But the jobs of the two are distinctly different — delivering bits/data vs managing [multimedia] application interoperability.

Yes. You reminded me of Tanenbaum!

 

[mhardy6647]

Physical noise only. That is why I locate my NAS drives far away from the music system and beyond the practical reach of USB.

Acoustic noise of NAS is real.

Can't have a NAS inside listening room.

Thank you both!
Now I have to tell you the back story Our son (you know, the mathematician... who minored in comp sci as an UG) and his wife are visiting us for... well... mostly, his mom's (Mrs. H's) birthday. I mentioned @Kal Rubinson's post and said (to young Dr. Hardy, that is) "I wonder what kind of noise he means?" and Steve said (slightly testily) "Noise from the drives and the fan". We had a bit of back and forth about it, and I said "I'll just ask [ @Kal Rubinson] what kind of noise he meant", which drew a reply along the line "he meant [acoustic] noise, you don't need to ask him!"
Kids... they never change.
Oh, or maybe it's dads that never change...


EDIT: And, oh, we have our NAS in a spare room, Ethernetted to, umm, everything else.
EDIT^2: as do our son & daughter-in-law, come to think of it. I think his big NAS shares a room with one of their foster cats.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Thank you both!
Now I have to tell you the back story Our son (you know, the mathematician... who minored in comp sci as an UG) and his wife are visiting us for... well... mostly, his mom's (Mrs. H's) birthday. I mentioned @Kal Rubinson's post and said (to young Dr. Hardy, that is) "I wonder what kind of noise he means?" and Steve said (slightly testily) "Noise from the drives and the fan". We had a bit of back and forth about it, and I said "I'll just ask [ @Kal Rubinson] what kind of noise he meant", which drew a reply along the line "he meant [acoustic] noise, you don't need to ask him!"
Kids... they never change.
Oh, or maybe it's dads that never change...


EDIT: And, oh, we have our NAS in a spare room, Ethernetted to, umm, everything else.
EDIT^2: as do our son & daughter-in-law, come to think of it. I think his big NAS shares a room with one of their foster cats.

If your NAS is really noisy, you can do what I tried a while back with Jriver. I played it in my NY system from files on my CT NAS!

 

[sq225917]

I've never heard of anyone being obsessed with usb, the entire thread is a flawed premise.

People use usb because every pc has some variant of it, all versions are backwards compatible, it's the most popular modern dac connection type and some people have no need for the added setup complications of networked devices. You just plug it in and it works, technically as well as any other connection.

In my case I have an external ssd plugged into an imac m1 and that plugs into my dac, why would I want to throw a network into the mix? Extra box, extra cables, extra power socket used, where's the benefit?

 

[radiogram]

I realize my premise of obsession is wrong and stand corrected. My apologies to those who were offended by the premise.

 

[JSmith]

I've never heard of anyone being obsessed with usb

Oh I am...

JSmith