"Things that cannot be measured"

[NTK]

I'd invite you to provide measurements of the love a parent has for his her child.

How much ransom is the parent willing to pay to the kidnaper

 

[Wes]

I'd invite you to provide measurements of the love a parent has for his her child.

need a grant; see above

emotions are merely neuro-endrocrinological phenomena

 

[Raindog123]

emotions are merely neuro-endrocrinological phenomena

What about consciousness (self-awareness) and conscience (Inner voice)?

 

[mansr]

What about consciousness (self-awareness) and conscience (Inner voice)?

Those are illusions.

 

[Raindog123]

Those are illusions

Still, are they understood enough to be measurable?

 

[mansr]

Still, are they understood enough to be measurable?

Are they definable?

 

[BluesDaddy]

need a grant; see above

emotions are merely neuro-endrocrinological phenomena

Right. Do you have kids?

 

[Raindog123]

Are they definable?

Each has a long entry in the Wikipedia... (I honestly do not know how we’ve got here, nor where/if to go next. )

 

[BluesDaddy]

Each has a long entry in the Wikipedia... (I honestly do not know how we’ve got here, nor where/if to go next. )

Probably best to drop it altogether. I've the sense a moderator will chime in soon to that effect.

 

[AdamG]

How much ransom is the parent willing to pay to the kidnaper

Can be measured but not repeatable and/or repeat results would invalidate previous results. Playing Devils advocate.

 

[BinkieHuckerback]

Emotions are measurable. Not every measurement has to be numerical. Qualitative analysis of data is a legitimate pursuit.

 

[AdamG]

I was enjoying the conversation

 

[BinkieHuckerback]

I was enjoying the conversation

...how much though...?

 

[AdamG]

Emotions are measurable. Not every measurement has to be numerical. Qualitative analysis of data is a legitimate pursuit.

Interesting, mind expounding on how?

 

[Ingenieur]

My opinion:
Any change in the electrical signal or sound pressure generated by it can be measured.

A human can't hear a change that is not detected in those signals.

Changes can be measured that a human can't detect.

Some can hear changes that others can't but it still can be measured. People's hearing is the limiting factor, not the instrumentation.

How often do people have their hearing evaluated? The goal should be the absolute lowest degradation of the signal, imo you can't improve it. You can change it to suit preference. Perhaps in the digital domain you can manipulate it, but improve it?

 

[AdamG]

My opinion:
Any change in the electrical signal or sound pressure generated by it can be measured.

A human can't hear a change that is not detected in those signals.

Changes can be measured that a human can't detect.

Some can hear changes that others can't but it still can be measured. People's hearing is the limiting factor, not the instrumentation.

How often do people have their hearing evaluated? The goal should be the absolute lowest degradation of the signal, imo you can't improve it. You can change it to suit preference. Perhaps in the digital domain you can manipulate it, but improve it?

Welcome Aboard @Ingenieur.

 

[Ingenieur]

What about consciousness (self-awareness) and conscience (Inner voice)?

Those are beyond the control of equipment designers. Some times beyond the control of the individual.
You can't account for the individuals biological processing mechanism.

 

[BinkieHuckerback]

Interesting, mind expounding on how?

Qualitative measurement is an accepted research method in social sciences. Recording and examining people's experiences. I did an MSc in dementia studies with the University of Bradford. My dissertation was about the experience of people attending a group looking at the services provided for people with memory problems, for example.

 

[dtaylo1066]

http://www.darkoaudio.com/

This link is Novick's most recent interview on a Darko podcast, and below a link to an upcoming AES Listening vs. Measurements presentation.

It would seem to me that given people's hearing reponse according to Novick's tests of amplifier distortion (clipping at 30%) vs. crossover distortion (at 3%) leaves me to think our speakers are the weak link and best thing to focus on, particularly if one enjoys higher volume levels, but we tend more to debate about amps and DACs and their accuracy of reproduction. Amir is now posting some great data on speakers too, and all have signficantly more distortion or flaws than the other components. And speakers and listening to them must contend with all types of issues such as room acoustics, off-axis response, different cone materials and breakup modes, analog crossovers vs DSP, etc. And our beloved stereophonic sound is an illusion of sound in space. Maybe Siegfried Linkwitz's LX-Mini sounds so good to me because it's response and crossover are crafted through extensive, measurement-based digital equilization. It does not even use a tweeter, but rather a 3" wideband manipulated via DSP.

Upcoming Meeting: AES SGS Research Colloquium #5: Listening Tests vs. Measurements

 

[BluesDaddy]

http://www.darkoaudio.com/

This link is Novick's most recent interview on a Darko podcast, and below a link to an upcoming AES Listening vs. Measurements presentation.

It would seem to me that given people's hearing reponse according to Novick's tests of amplifier distortion (clipping at 30%) vs. crossover distortion (at 3%) leaves me to think our speakers are the weak link and best thing to focus on, particularly if one enjoys higher volume levels, but we tend more to debate about amps and DACs and their accuracy of reproduction. Amir is now posting some great data on speakers too, and all have signficantly more distortion or flaws than the other components. And speakers and listening to them must contend with all types of issues such as room acoustics, off-axis response, different cone materials and breakup modes, analog crossovers vs DSP, etc. And our beloved stereophonic sound is an illusion of sound in space. Maybe Siegfried Linkwitz's LX-Mini sounds so good to me because it's response and crossover are crafted through extensive, measurement-based digital equilization. It does not even use a tweeter, but rather a 3" wideband manipulated via DSP.

Upcoming Meeting: AES SGS Research Colloquium #5: Listening Tests vs. Measurements

Until the "high end" took over, it was "common wisdom" in the hi-fi world to spend at least half your budget for a system on loudspeakers.