The online coffee/espresso culture mirrors the subjectivist audio crowd.

[delta76]

OK - not needed when the local deli roasts weekly AND has reasonable prices to boot. Admittedly you're still going to pay for cat turd beans, but they have zero appeal to me, and my standard blend is <£20 / Kg roasted.

Home roasting is not for everyone. It comes with initial cost, smoke and noise. It is only suitable if you drink a lot of coffee that the saving becomes significant, or you like to try exotic beans (there are a lot of good beans that do not involve animal cruelty and are still > $50/kg. Blue mountain geisha is easily > $200/kg), or you simply have the fun of experimenting with different beans and different profiles. Home roasting machines can be very advanced now and you can potentially roast better (to your taste) than a specialty roaster, if you put enough time and care into it.
Again it is not for everyone.

 

[antcollinet]

are still cracks between them and the rest. Under high pressure water will find a way.

Not my experience. And given the fragile nature of the clumps it seems highly unlikely to me.

Grind comes out of grinder clumped. Whatever levelling I do (tap with tamper or move with finger) they fall apart. I use a firm tamp - I never have any channelling unless I've set the grind too coarse for the beans. Even with oily/sticky beans where the clumps have higher integrity.


Not wanting to go down the "more revealing grinder" route, but perhaps grinders with a less consistent grind are more susceptible to channelling. I did have channelling probelms with my Iberital MC2 - but that was also with a much lower end machine (Gaggia Classic)

 

[GGroch]

Back to the OP proposition: Coffee culture mirrors subjectivist audio crowd. I posit it sometimes mirrors the "objectivist" crowd based on the spritzing/RDT discussion here.

Like many ASR discussions, the spritz topic starts with a clueless newbie (me in post 107) asking a question. I am not clueless in general, just about coffee. I thought there was new info here. My bad, the WaPo reference was paywalled, so not readily accessible.

Lacking the full context, many of the following posts, were from those more knowledgeable than me who often assumed this was the SOS (Same Old Spritzing) stuff. A wide variety of responses followed, some helpful, some more jargon filled & scientific sounding, but also missing the new info.

It is not until the Coffee's Amir (James Hoffman) steps in with "More than an Anti-Static Hack" that it is recognized that there may be new stuff here. Even then it seems some posters did not view Hoffman's whole video before responding with authority. Hoffman is less certain of the science than some posters here.

I expect the results of Hoffman's google doc survey questions on viewer's relative extraction times of heavily spritzed VS un-spritzed espresso will provide new information. That, along with blind testing that I expect in Hoffman's follow up should provide us with a more objective conclusion, similar in ways to the conclusions we get from Amir's tests.

There are differences, but Hoffman provides a much needed objectivist voice for the coffee crowd, just as Amir does for audio science.

 

[xray]

I'm not sure if this is the same article as the previous link provided that was behind the pay wall. For those interested:

Grinding coffee with a splash of water reduces static electricity and makes more consistent and intense espresso: Study

The fracturing and friction of coffee beans during grinding generates electricity that causes coffee particles to clump together and stick to the grinder. Researchers report Dec. 6 in the journal Matter that coffee beans with higher internal moisture produce less static electricity, which means...

phys.org

 

[delta76]

Back to the OP proposition: Coffee culture mirrors subjectivist audio crowd. I posit it sometimes mirrors the "objectivist" crowd based on the spritzing/RDT discussion here.

Like many ASR discussions, the spritz topic starts with a clueless newbie (me in post 107) asking a question. I am not clueless in general, just about coffee. I thought there was new info here. My bad, the WaPo reference was paywalled, so not readily accessible.

Lacking the full context, many of the following posts, were from those more knowledgeable than me who often assumed this was the SOS (Same Old Spritzing) stuff. A wide variety of responses followed, some helpful, some more jargon filled & scientific sounding, but also missing the new info.

It is not until the Coffee's Amir (James Hoffman) steps in with "More than an Anti-Static Hack" that it is recognized that there may be new stuff here. Even then it seems some posters did not view Hoffman's whole video before responding with authority. Hoffman is less certain of the science than some posters here.

I expect the results of Hoffman's google doc survey questions on viewer's relative extraction times of heavily spritzed VS un-spritzed espresso will provide new information. That, along with blind testing that I expect in Hoffman's follow up should provide us with a more objective conclusion, similar in ways to the conclusions we get from Amir's tests.

There are differences, but Hoffman provides a much needed objectivist voice for the coffee crowd, just as Amir does for audio science.

I like the guy a lot. He is definitely knowledgeable and he does his homework intensively. Then presents the topic in an easy to understand format, with his soothing voice and quirkily funny style.
If we back to the original topic. Every industry will have some level of snake oil, but none will have such problems as audio, because the effect of Psychoacoustics - hard to properly a/b testing and a lot is in our brain in stead of our ears. Hdmi cables which make video clearer and colors pop more? Sure you get to see one or two, but they are further and fewer in between than anything audio related. Tools that make coffee tastes better? Sure, but that could be easily blind tested.

 

[GaryY]

Among the best purchases I made were 2 Eureka grinders (one for regular and one for decaf) and a Profitec Pro 300. Now my wife and I enjoy great espresso drinks whenever we want for less than $1 each, instead of driving, waiting and paying $5+ each.

We do not roast our own beans. We buy from smaller roasters that charge reasonable prices.

Though i didn't buy profitec 300, it was a kind of hot spot when I was searching for espresso machine which can meet most of pratical needs. Reltivley fast heating, dual boiler...and so on.

 

[FrantzM]

Hi

Espresso lover here... And wishing/hoping/yearning for an ASR-equivalent coffee/espresso forum...

Most of the espresso sites, IME mimic the HEA sites..

I am clear on the limitations of my current setup.. The alternatives are unknown to me.. even if I double or triple the budget. Coffee lover would not know about the Topping, TCZ Blue or Red equivalent espresso machines or grinders.. What we are left to do, is spend more and hope for the best...

I would really like a serious evaluation of the Turin Legato.. This could be a winner, alas, the few "reviews" are either of the infomercial types or the haughty types ... full of the "for the price" and "cheap" construction references followed by a "tasting" in which the results are always dependent on price or ... whatever the "reviewer" wants to say at the time...
You get the same with Grinders....

The current priest of the High End espresso scene is one James Hoffman... If he ever grows tired of making faces about "cheap" espresso anything, he would find a new=calling in the subjectivist audio realm. He'd make a killing....

Peace.

 

[Leporello]

Man, I need this.

 

[FrantzM]

Hi

I like my espresso. I do like the arom , the crema the mouth feel of espresso.. and I need, I want to know if there is CSR out there , you know a Coffee Science Review. The darn thing about espress is quite scientific.. I am

Back to the OP proposition: Coffee culture mirrors subjectivist audio crowd. I posit it sometimes mirrors the "objectivist" crowd based on the spritzing/RDT discussion here.

Like many ASR discussions, the spritz topic starts with a clueless newbie (me in post 107) asking a question. I am not clueless in general, just about coffee. I thought there was new info here. My bad, the WaPo reference was paywalled, so not readily accessible.

Lacking the full context, many of the following posts, were from those more knowledgeable than me who often assumed this was the SOS (Same Old Spritzing) stuff. A wide variety of responses followed, some helpful, some more jargon filled & scientific sounding, but also missing the new info.

It is not until the Coffee's Amir (James Hoffman) steps in with "More than an Anti-Static Hack" that it is recognized that there may be new stuff here. Even then it seems some posters did not view Hoffman's whole video before responding with authority. Hoffman is less certain of the science than some posters here.

I expect the results of Hoffman's google doc survey questions on viewer's relative extraction times of heavily spritzed VS un-spritzed espresso will provide new information. That, along with blind testing that I expect in Hoffman's follow up should provide us with a more objective conclusion, similar in ways to the conclusions we get from Amir's tests.

There are differences, but Hoffman provides a much needed objectivist voice for the coffee crowd, just as Amir does for audio science.

Hi

I am not sure you are talking about the same James Hoffman.. I would call him the coffee equivalent of The Absolute Sound Michael Fremer for Coffee..

Here...

He may conduct som reviews, that have some appearances of blind "taste" them but ... Perhaps knowledge is removed, but does that make his protocols objective? I doubt it..
How repeatable are these findings? Where are the measurements? Take for example his "reviews" of coffee grinder.. Does he measure the size of the resulting coffee particles? Their consistency? final temperature after grinding? Amount of static electricity in the grind? All of these are measurable?
He could also measure the compound profile of the espresso brews? Somethings that would be repeatable...
There is Lance Hendricks who tries a bit ... He's the closest thing to an objectivist reviewer, I have found so far. I haven't seen any measurements from him...
There could be other sites but I wouldn't be interested in a Science for Science sakes' coffee column , one that would delve too deeply in the organic chemistry of a coffee brew ... I would like to see a CSR (Coffee Science Review ) , an equivalent of ASR for coffee... Would like to find the coffee machines equivalent of a Topping or SMSL or Benchmark or Hypex-Class D or JBL LSR-308 or TCZ Red or Blue... or Hypex Class D amplifiers .. etc..
So far one has to go n blind faith. I am using the Gaggia Classic Evo Pro and am thinking about the Gagguino modifications, which consists in having the machine controlled by a micro-pc. thus you can stabilize temperature, perform automatic pre-infusion, coffee profiles etc, in the most repeatable way...
I am not interested to invest $3000 for an espresso machine, plus another 1000 or more for a "well reviewed" coffee finder... Interestingly there is a machine that relies on Science to pull good and repeatable shots, at a relatively reasonable price: The Breville Bambino Plus... I already have the Gaggia, going to the Bambino seems like "side"-grade....
As for the grinder so far, I haven't found anything to reproach the Breville Smart Grinder Pro... After more than 5 years of twice a day and sometime for firends coffee making, it it just works.. grinds seem consistent... I want proofs that I need to upgrade ..

Happy holidays!

Peace.

P.S. Re-reading this thread saved me around $50, that I was going to invest in a WDT... Thanks people!


Waiting for CSR...

 

[GaryY]

Hi

I like my espresso. I do like the arom , the crema the mouth feel of espresso.. and I need, I want to know if there is CSR out there , you know a Coffee Science Review. The darn thing about espress is quite scientific.. I am

Hi

I am not sure you are talking about the same James Hoffman.. I would call him the coffee equivalent of The Absolute Sound Michael Fremer for Coffee..

Here...

He may conduct som reviews, that have some appearances of blind "taste" them but ... Perhaps knowledge is removed, but does that make his protocols objective? I doubt it..
How repeatable are these findings? Where are the measurements? Take for example his "reviews" of coffee grinder.. Does he measure the size of the resulting coffee particles? Their consistency? final temperature after grinding? Amount of static electricity in the grind? All of these are measurable?
He could also measure the compound profile of the espresso brews? Somethings that would be repeatable...
There is Lance Hendricks who tries a bit ... He's the closest thing to an objectivist reviewer, I have found so far. I haven't seen any measurements from him...
There could be other sites but I wouldn't be interested in a Science for Science sakes' coffee column , one that would delve too deeply in the organic chemistry of a coffee brew ... I would like to see a CSR (Coffee Science Review ) , an equivalent of ASR for coffee... Would like to find the coffee machines equivalent of a Topping or SMSL or Benchmark or Hypex-Class D or JBL LSR-308 or TCZ Red or Blue... or Hypex Class D amplifiers .. etc..
So far one has to go n blind faith. I am using the Gaggia Classic Evo Pro and am thinking about the Gagguino modifications, which consists in having the machine controlled by a micro-pc. thus you can stabilize temperature, perform automatic pre-infusion, coffee profiles etc, in the most repeatable way...
I am not interested to invest $3000 for an espresso machine, plus another 1000 or more for a "well reviewed" coffee finder... Interestingly there is a machine that relies on Science to pull good and repeatable shots, at a relatively reasonable price: The Breville Bambino Plus... I already have the Gaggia, going to the Bambino seems like "side"-grade....
As for the grinder so far, I haven't found anything to reproach the Breville Smart Grinder Pro... After more than 5 years of twice a day and sometime for firends coffee making, it it just works.. grinds seem consistent... I want proofs that I need to upgrade ..

Happy holidays!

Peace.

P.S. Re-reading this thread saved me around $50, that I was going to invest in a WDT... Thanks people!


Waiting for CSR...

There are many measurements of espresso machines.

ECM Synchronika Test

Test der ECM Synchronika durch die Kaffeeprofis der Kaffeemacher. Was kann der Edel-Dualboiler aus Deutschland?

www.kaffeemacher.ch

 

[Leporello]

So far one has to go n blind faith. I am using the Gaggia Classic Evo Pro and am thinking about the Gagguino modifications, which consists in having the machine controlled by a micro-pc. thus you can stabilize temperature, perform automatic pre-infusion, coffee profiles etc, in the most repeatable way...
I am not interested to invest $3000 for an espresso machine, plus another 1000 or more for a "well reviewed" coffee finder... Interestingly there is a machine that relies on Science to pull good and repeatable shots, at a relatively reasonable price: The Breville Bambino Plus... I already have the Gaggia, going to the Bambino seems like "side"-grade....
As for the grinder so far, I haven't found anything to reproach the Breville Smart Grinder Pro... After more than 5 years of twice a day and sometime for firends coffee making, it it just works.. grinds seem consistent... I want proofs that I need to upgrade ..

Sincere question: are you unhappy with the coffee you are getting with your current setup? If not, there is no need to upgrade, imho. Save the cash and spend it in cafes when visiting Italy.

 

[GaryY]

Some of machines also have temperature/pressure profile control interface during extraction.

The best home espresso machine

The best home espresso machine

decentespresso.com

 

[FrantzM]

Sincere question: are you unhappy with the coffee you are getting with your current setup? If not, there is no need to upgrade, imho. Save the cash and spend it in cafes when visiting Italy.

Annoyed with the wild temperature swings of the Gaggia Classic Pro. Sometimes I go through the « temperature surfing » routines; most often I resign myself to the whims of espresso gods … The shots are … whatever... Sometimes good , often,, strange. Temperature stability and reliable pre-infusion have become requirements for me.

So far the Breville Bambino Plus is one of the least expensive , very serious espresso machine. It has lightining Quick heating ( less than 10 seconds!!!!) PID temperature stability, programmed pre-infusion and one of the best milk steaming solutions this side of hiring an expert Barista; why didn't I buy then? I live in Haiti, a Gaggia is a solid basic repairable machine the Bambino Plus? I don't think so... It could well be the equivalent of the Topping of the espresso scene, of course spurned by the snobs and cognoscenti ... A bit of buyer remorse if you ask me The other in my tech mind could be the "Gagguino," mod to the Gaggia Classic, it is fully reversible , you can easily bring the machine back to original condition... I already have the Gaggia... so....

And you are right @Leporello . Many espresso machines are the price of a vacation .

Thanks @GaryY for the https://www.kaffeemacher.ch/ site.. Will surf it tonight

Happy holidays!

Peace.

 

[GaryY]

Annoyed with the wild temperature swings of ghe Gaggia Classic Pro , at times I go through the with the « temperature surfing » routines; most often I resign myself to the whims of espresso gods … The shot is ... whatever... Sometimes good , often,, strange. Temperature stability and reliable pre-infusion have become requirements for me.

So far the Breville Bambino Plus is one of the least expensive , very serious espresso machine. It has lightining quicj heating ( less than 10 seconds!!!!) PID temperature stability, programmed pre-infusion and one of the best milk steaming solutions this side of hiring an expert Barista. why didn't I buy then? I live in Haiti, a Gaggia is a solid basic repairable machine the Bambino Plus? I don't think so... It could well be the equivalent of the Topping of the espresso scene, of course spurned by the snobs and cognoscenti ... A bit of buyer remorse if you aske me The other in my tech mind could be the "Gagguino," mod to the Gaggia Classic, it is fully reversible , you can easily bring the machine back to original condition... I already have the Gaggia... so....

And you are right @Leporello . Many espresso machines are the price of a vacation .

Thanks @GaryY for the https://www.kaffeemacher.ch/ site.. Will surf it tonight

Happy holidays!

Peace.

Kaffeemacher has youtube channel as well. You probably can find some useful information there for espresso machines and grinders though language is in German

 

[Somafunk]

Annoyed with the wild temperature swings of ghe Gaggia Classic Pro , at times I go through the with the « temperature surfing » routines; most often I resign myself to the whims of espresso gods … The shot is ... whatever... Sometimes good , often,, strange. Temperature stability and reliable pre-infusion have become requirements for me.

I had 4 of them of various styles but essentially similar internals and they were very unpredictable in use and the solenoid valves were an utter pain as they clogged up. Bought a sage duo temp (uk/euro version of breville) back in 2013 ish and it’s been utterly faultless in use pulling at least 3 shots a day plus steamed milk without an issue and so predictable in use as it just works as you expect. The only machine I’d swap it for would be the sage dual boiler.

 

[beeface]

Maybe this has been posted already, but I thought this video was very interesting.

Around the 7:50 mark the founder of Decent describes the coffee industry as being pre-scientific during the time he was developing his product and talks about an absence of measurements

 

[Axo1989]

Hi

I am not sure you are talking about the same James Hoffman.. I would call him the coffee equivalent of The Absolute Sound Michael Fremer for Coffee..

Here...

He may conduct som reviews, that have some appearances of blind "taste" them but ... Perhaps knowledge is removed, but does that make his protocols objective? I doubt it..
How repeatable are these findings? Where are the measurements? Take for example his "reviews" of coffee grinder.. Does he measure the size of the resulting coffee particles? Their consistency? final temperature after grinding? Amount of static electricity in the grind? All of these are measurable?
He could also measure the compound profile of the espresso brews? Somethings that would be repeatable...
There is Lance Hendricks who tries a bit ... He's the closest thing to an objectivist reviewer, I have found so far. I haven't seen any measurements from him...
There could be other sites but I wouldn't be interested in a Science for Science sakes' coffee column , one that would delve too deeply in the organic chemistry of a coffee brew ... I would like to see a CSR (Coffee Science Review ) , an equivalent of ASR for coffee... Would like to find the coffee machines equivalent of a Topping or SMSL or Benchmark or Hypex-Class D or JBL LSR-308 or TCZ Red or Blue... or Hypex Class D amplifiers .. etc..
So far one has to go n blind faith. I am using the Gaggia Classic Evo Pro and am thinking about the Gagguino modifications, which consists in having the machine controlled by a micro-pc. thus you can stabilize temperature, perform automatic pre-infusion, coffee profiles etc, in the most repeatable way...
I am not interested to invest $3000 for an espresso machine, plus another 1000 or more for a "well reviewed" coffee finder... Interestingly there is a machine that relies on Science to pull good and repeatable shots, at a relatively reasonable price: The Breville Bambino Plus... I already have the Gaggia, going to the Bambino seems like "side"-grade....
As for the grinder so far, I haven't found anything to reproach the Breville Smart Grinder Pro... After more than 5 years of twice a day and sometime for firends coffee making, it it just works.. grinds seem consistent... I want proofs that I need to upgrade ..

Happy holidays!

Peace.

P.S. Re-reading this thread saved me around $50, that I was going to invest in a WDT... Thanks people!


Waiting for CSR...

As it's a new year, I did the 'show ignored posts thing' and shortly wondered "why did I ignore @FrantzM ?" as you do ... Ok invoking Fremer is the Godwin's law of ASR, and comparing Hoffman to him is a bit obnoxious. But all that is a matter of communication style. What about the substantive concern with measurement?

You asked "Does he measure the size of the resulting coffee particles? Their consistency?". So I'll ask, did you watch the video that you posted?

... sigh. And I'm only half-way through. Anyway HNY for now and see you this time next year perhaps.

 

[kemmler3D]

Home roasting is not for everyone. It comes with initial cost, smoke and noise. It is only suitable if you drink a lot of coffee that the saving becomes significant, or you like to try exotic beans (there are a lot of good beans that do not involve animal cruelty and are still > $50/kg. Blue mountain geisha is easily > $200/kg), or you simply have the fun of experimenting with different beans and different profiles. Home roasting machines can be very advanced now and you can potentially roast better (to your taste) than a specialty roaster, if you put enough time and care into it.
Again it is not for everyone.

I've roasted coffee casually, off and on for many years. I would say anyone CAN roast coffee and maybe you should do it at least once just to see how it goes. That said, I'm referring to roasting the beans in a skillet on a gas grill or something equally primitive, just to have the experience.

Sort of like building DIY speakers, anyone can roast coffee, but most people won't want to put in the effort and investment to meet or beat commercial offerings. It's not THAT hard to roast some decent beans, but it's more complex than just cooking them until they turn brown. I'd say it's much easier than building a good speaker, though.

That said, if you can't find coffee beans roasted less than 2 weeks ago in stores near you, or you have a hard time finding interesting specialty beans, roasting might be a good option. Freshness matters and DIY yields the freshest coffee you can get. Order whatever fancy green beans you want and you have about a year to roast them before they start to go off.

 

[brucedgoose]

I used to work on a Coffee Farm, and I have lived in one of the world’s premier coffee-growing regions and I love espresso. You could accurately measure every conceivable parameter and follow the recipe exactly and you still would get inconsistent results. On addition to the correct (or, more accurately, preferred, recipe, the *technique* of espresso is also critical. This isn’t usually considered “science”, but you won’t get good, consistent results without it.
One exception, yet to be realized for espresso, is the recently introduced “auto-barista” (not sure of real name). Its a robot arm that has been trained *by a human barista* (poor soul!) to mimic the exact movements to do a pour-over. Just a matter of time till they get to espresso with this. *Then* both the science and the art can be captured!
And all the fun will be gone!

 

[delta76]

Hi

I like my espresso. I do like the arom , the crema the mouth feel of espresso.. and I need, I want to know if there is CSR out there , you know a Coffee Science Review. The darn thing about espress is quite scientific.. I am

Hi

I am not sure you are talking about the same James Hoffman.. I would call him the coffee equivalent of The Absolute Sound Michael Fremer for Coffee..

Here...

He may conduct som reviews, that have some appearances of blind "taste" them but ... Perhaps knowledge is removed, but does that make his protocols objective? I doubt it..
How repeatable are these findings? Where are the measurements? Take for example his "reviews" of coffee grinder.. Does he measure the size of the resulting coffee particles? Their consistency? final temperature after grinding? Amount of static electricity in the grind? All of these are measurable?
He could also measure the compound profile of the espresso brews? Somethings that would be repeatable...
There is Lance Hendricks who tries a bit ... He's the closest thing to an objectivist reviewer, I have found so far. I haven't seen any measurements from him...
There could be other sites but I wouldn't be interested in a Science for Science sakes' coffee column , one that would delve too deeply in the organic chemistry of a coffee brew ... I would like to see a CSR (Coffee Science Review ) , an equivalent of ASR for coffee... Would like to find the coffee machines equivalent of a Topping or SMSL or Benchmark or Hypex-Class D or JBL LSR-308 or TCZ Red or Blue... or Hypex Class D amplifiers .. etc..
So far one has to go n blind faith. I am using the Gaggia Classic Evo Pro and am thinking about the Gagguino modifications, which consists in having the machine controlled by a micro-pc. thus you can stabilize temperature, perform automatic pre-infusion, coffee profiles etc, in the most repeatable way...
I am not interested to invest $3000 for an espresso machine, plus another 1000 or more for a "well reviewed" coffee finder... Interestingly there is a machine that relies on Science to pull good and repeatable shots, at a relatively reasonable price: The Breville Bambino Plus... I already have the Gaggia, going to the Bambino seems like "side"-grade....
As for the grinder so far, I haven't found anything to reproach the Breville Smart Grinder Pro... After more than 5 years of twice a day and sometime for firends coffee making, it it just works.. grinds seem consistent... I want proofs that I need to upgrade ..

Happy holidays!

Peace.

P.S. Re-reading this thread saved me around $50, that I was going to invest in a WDT... Thanks people!


Waiting for CSR...

sorry, what?
James Hoffmann is the most knowledgeable and balanced Youtube reviewer I know of - and yes I did watch a lot of reviews. He (and his team) did their homework intensively and his have done fair amount of scientific researches, and blind testing.
For the video in question, yes he does own a particles analyzer and did a fair bit of tests with it. Remember there is still not a solid ground (pun intended) between particles distribution (and even more importantly, shape) and the taste of the coffee/espresso. You have to realize on the taste bud of the reviewer, and if I have to choose one, it's James. Also a grinder is more than just particle distribution, it's retention, noise, easy of use etc.

James is not perfect but he has a profile that most baristas can only dream of, and I find his style of presentable to be easy to watch and understand. He chooses his words carefully to make them on point but also balanced - and he always stresses that it's his personal opinion. He showed class acts during the years (when he actually gave the eye watering 20k$ espresso machine to his supporters before publishing the review to avoid a wave of people to register his patreon just for a chance of winning it, etc.). He also never recommend something because it's "more expensive" (he did review some absurdly expensive ones, but just for fun).

James has done, probably more than anyone else, good things to coffee world in the last decade. calling him the "The Absolute Sound Michael Fremer for Coffee.." is very unfair to him