The online coffee/espresso culture mirrors the subjectivist audio crowd.

[antcollinet]

I have one keyword for you - home roasting

Not needed when the local deli roasts weekly

 

[tw99]

I was looking for some advice recently on a new coffee machine for home. I found it's very hard to get any advice on the net that doesn't immediately dive into utter wankery like almost every preceding post in this thread

 

[delta76]

Not needed when the local deli roasts weekly

note what he said - he had to buy a lot to get a good price, and that's too much coffee to consume in a reasonable time.
Some exotic beans can be very expensive to buy roasted. Like > 50$/kg. With roasting it can be <$30/kg and you roast when you want, how you want.

note that I'm aware that home roasting is considered very hardcore and not for every one. I was mostly joking to John - but there's some truth in it

 

[delta76]

I was looking for some advice recently on a new coffee machine for home. I found it's very hard to get any advice on the net that doesn't immediately dive into utter wankery like almost every preceding post in this thread

it's internet, what do you expect. People were asking for $1k machine, max, and there will be people throwing in "I have this $2k machine and it's terrific".
When I have time I try to be sensible, like, for the budget I think this is a good option, with this and that caveat. moving up you can buy this machine and have these nice things. if you can, skip and get this.

 

[theREALdotnet]

I have one keyword for you - home roasting

I’ve recently taken this up again, after buying roasted beans for several years, since I got rid of the espresso machine.

I’m brewing right in the cup now – the most simple and yet delicious way of making coffee. I’m going back to home roasting because roasted beans are 2-3 times as expensive. I remember enjoying it back then and still have the roaster, so why not.

 

[majingotan]

The online coffee/espresso culture mirrors the subjectivist audio crowd.

One of the interesting things about coffee is it's assigned a quality grade by blind testing, by qualified graders, some basic info at the link below. It's not easy to pass the exam. https://littlecity.com/2022/04/what-is-the-q-grader-arabica-exam/ Yes and every major coffee company has about a...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Unfortunately the mythology around coffee making is heading down similar lines to audio.

For example this whole idea of "stirring the grind" with a pin - is bizarre. It seemed to spontaneously emerge on the coffee forums 10 to 15 years ago - in response to some people complaining the grind was emerging in clumps from the grinder. The advice was to stir it - literally with a pin (or a paper clip, or similar) Utterly ridiculous even then, when you see how much structural integrity these "clumps" have. Lightly touch them and they fall apart. The idea of any trace of clumps still existing after any reasonable tamp is daft. I suspect that people with poor grinders, unable to give a fine/even enough grind, then got water channelling through the puck and blamed it on the clumps, rather than the grind consistency. Now you have a ridiculously over engineered machine to do the totally pointless stirring for you. There aren't enough

Unfortunately, this mythology has finally penetrated the WBC competition where the trend is to use fancy Weber Moonraker or some Barista Hustle DIY WDT tool as part of that 10-15 minute performance. I remember back 10 years that you get penalized from using these tools as part of your puck prep.

As for RDT, I fully recommend it if you have an electric burr grinder that doesn't have a built-in ionizer (RDT is unnecessary for hand grinding due to far less static build-up) and live in a dry location since it reduces static to almost none so you don't get grounds all over the place when you transfer them from the grinder catch cup to your portafilter. However, I would never buy the idea that RDT improves extraction and flavor from the machine just like the WDT myth from below:

 

[delta76]

Unfortunately, this mythology has finally penetrated the WBC competition where the trend is to use fancy Weber Moonraker or some Barista Hustle DIY WDT tool as part of that 10-15 minute performance. I remember back 10 years that you get penalized from using these tools as part of your puck prep.

As for RDT, I fully recommend it if you have an electric burr grinder that doesn't have a built-in ionizer (RDT is unnecessary for hand grinding due to far less static build-up) and live in a dry location since it reduces static to almost none so you don't get grounds all over the place when you transfer them from the grinder catch cup to your portafilter. However, I would never buy the idea that RDT improves extraction and flavor from the machine just like the WDT myth from below:

What is wrong with WDT? Weber is like Nordost of espresso world and their products are way over engineered and over priced, but WDT is totally useful as a tool. Especially if your grinder produces a lot of chumps

 

[Sukram]

I would start with the following:
Gagghia classic evo pro $400
Breville smart grinder pro $200
15g coffee --35g espresso in 25 to 35 s (adjust grain size accordingly)
with Breville you can start 20s grain size 2 to 3
Coffee Lavazza

 

[delta76]

I would start with the following:
Gagghia classic evo pro $400
Breville smart grinder pro $200
15g coffee --35g espresso in 25 to 35 s (adjust grain size accordingly)
with Breville you can start 20s grain size 2 to 3
Coffee Lavazza

Smart grinder pro is not an adequate grinder for espresso. I would rather save up or just buy manual (1zpresso).
Sure if you want to stay only with dark roast it might work. But if you want to explore espresso world, grinder is crucial

 

[suttondesign]

i would start with an aeropress and a baratza grinder. if you want drip, add a basic bonavita.
this setup makes amazeballs coffee for minimal expense.

 

[stren]

I'd love to see some more science behind espresso machines - it shouldn't be hard just takes the right equipment.

Grinders should be measured for performance - breadth of grind range and tightness/accuracy of grind. Espresso machines should be tested for steam temperature and pressure regulation. Noise, time as factors for both. I imagine you could make standardized portafilter dummies to do that kinda like a gras for headphones

 

[egellings]

I use the Quaker City QB mill. It is hand-cranked and looks like a meat grinder that is mounted at the edge of a kitchen table with a screw clamp. Instead of the meat grinder attachment, it has two steel burrs the grind the beans to a very consistent size, which can be adjusted by adjusting the distance between the two burrs. Since it operates at low speed, there is negligible heating of the coffee. I've had it for most of the adult portion of my life, and likely will never wear it out. It also works well as a flour grinder.

 

[delta76]

I'd love to see some more science behind espresso machines - it shouldn't be hard just takes the right equipment.

Grinders should be measured for performance - breadth of grind range and tightness/accuracy of grind. Espresso machines should be tested for steam temperature and pressure regulation. Noise, time as factors for both. I imagine you could make standardized portafilter dummies to do that kinda like a gras for headphones

They are being tested like that. Kaffemacher in Switzerland is doing that. But of course they have different criteria than what you mentioned

 

[Count Arthur]

Unfortunately, this mythology has finally penetrated the WBC competition where the trend is to use fancy Weber Moonraker or some Barista Hustle DIY WDT tool as part of that 10-15 minute performance. I remember back 10 years that you get penalized from using these tools as part of your puck prep.

As for RDT, I fully recommend it if you have an electric burr grinder that doesn't have a built-in ionizer (RDT is unnecessary for hand grinding due to far less static build-up) and live in a dry location since it reduces static to almost none so you don't get grounds all over the place when you transfer them from the grinder catch cup to your portafilter. However, I would never buy the idea that RDT improves extraction and flavor from the machine just like the WDT myth from below:

I've been spritzing with water, prior to grindiing, for ages and it definitely helps with static. I just tried an extra couple of squirts and it didn't seem to make much difference - perhaps I was wetting the beans sufficiently to get the effect anyway.

 

[majingotan]

What is wrong with WDT? Weber is like Nordost of espresso world and their products are way over engineered and over priced, but WDT is totally useful as a tool. Especially if your grinder produces a lot of chumps

Unnecessary step for commercial purposes, but then again, a good coffee shop would have a SOTA espresso grinder such as the Mahlkonig E80 Supreme that produces fluffy grounds consistently without the need for WDT thus saving time and labor costs

 

[delta76]

Unnecessary step for commercial purposes, but then again, a good coffee shop would have a SOTA espresso grinder such as the Mahlkonig E80 Supreme that produces fluffy grounds consistently without the need for WDT thus saving time and labor costs

Exactly my point. Not a lot home barista can afford such grinders. Also i have yet to see a coffee shop uses bottomless portafilter. For home barista making espresso is not only about what in the cup, but also the process. A nice, balanced, well distributed and no channeling shot is enjoyable to most

 

[Anton D]

Are caffeine pills the objectivist coffee?

 

[antcollinet]

What is wrong with WDT? Weber is like Nordost of espresso world and their products are way over engineered and over priced, but WDT is totally useful as a tool. Especially if your grinder produces a lot of chumps

Why?

the clumps are so insubstantial, the almost completely break down just from a levelling tap or two of the tamper on the side of the portafilter. Follow that with a firm tamp, and there is nothing left of them in the puck.

It is just one of those things that emerged 10 or 15 years ago, as far as I could see, and gained myth status in the coffee forum echo chambers.

 

[antcollinet]

note what he said - he had to buy a lot to get a good price, and that's too much coffee to consume in a reasonable time.
Some exotic beans can be very expensive to buy roasted. Like > 50$/kg. With roasting it can be <$30/kg and you roast when you want, how you want.

note that I'm aware that home roasting is considered very hardcore and not for every one. I was mostly joking to John - but there's some truth in it

OK - not needed when the local deli roasts weekly AND has reasonable prices to boot. Admittedly you're still going to pay for cat turd beans, but they have zero appeal to me, and my standard blend is <£20 / Kg roasted.

 

[delta76]

Why?

the clumps are so insubstantial, the almost completely break down just from a levelling tap or two of the tamper on the side of the portafilter. Follow that with a firm tamp, and there is nothing left of them in the puck.

It is just one of those things that emerged 10 or 15 years ago, as far as I could see, and gained myth status in the coffee forum echo chambers.

They collapse but their are still cracks between them and the rest. Under high pressure water will find a way. Wdt breaks clumps and mixes the particles to avoid that.

Well, try and see it yourself. I tried and it reduced my significant channelling from 6-7 out of 10 shots to 2-3 out of 10. If you don't like it or don't bother that is fine. But wdt is a proven technique. It might only be marginally better than a proper tap and distribute, but it is much easier to do. You definitely need not a moonraker that cost $200. A $5 or even DIY will do