The BEST rooms - looking for real world measurements

[holdingpants01]

Does the download work out? Here are some outtakes. The first graph is a Neumann KH310 measured in a reflection free room, second a Neumann KH420 center speaker in an new build Dolby Atmos Setup with Sub KH870. No Mic calibration, so above 6k its not true ;-) Graph 3 is also the Atmos Center with smoothing for better reading.

View attachment 311137

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As you can see, the anechoic chamber is not really anechoic below 200Hz, its a small one. The center speaker measurement shows some dips around 600 to 800Hz, which could be caused the big console between the speaker and the listening position.

Thank you! Crazy flat! Are these the same room? There's a difference in spectrogram between KH310 and all the others, so I assume those are two different spaces? Do you happen to have some pictures of it? At what distance the measurement were taken? Anyway the decay on either is really, really short especially on the low end, I wonder how it feels to listen to music there

 

[Iwe]

Yes, these aer two different rooms. The first measurement with the red graph is made in an anechoic chamber.

All the walls, ceiling and floor are porous absorbers with around 70cm depth. You walk on a grid. These rooms are good for some measurements, like loudspeaker frequency response. For exact speaker response you can measure Mids/Highs in the farfield (some meters), and Lows and port in the very nearfield ( 1 or 2 cm ), and then combine the three measurements. In the above shown graph it was only one measurement with maybe 2-3 meters distance to the microphone. The anechoic measurement shows perfect what is achievable from a speakers view. The sound is very good, often amazing how short tones in the bass range are on the recordings, and how they sound in normal rooms.

Unfortunately, these measurement rooms are not ideal for mixing music, for example, for several reasons. The lighting is poor, there is no ventilation, there is no place to put a beer, cleaning is difficult. Perhaps the most important point is that our brain sees walls but does not perceive reflections from them. This sometimes feels a bit strange and affects our processing.

 

[holdingpants01]

Cool! I wonder where the bass roll-off in kh310 came from, they should be more or less flat down to 30 something Hz in the anechoic environment

 

[Iwe]

The second room is a television studio where sporting events are mixed live in Dolby Atmos. I had the pleasure of planning the acoustics and overseeing the execution. Of course, you make a lot of compromises depending on the space, schedule, budget, and try to achieve the best for the user.
The microphone position was at the listening position, about 2 meters from the speakers. The side walls, ceiling, back wall are mostly made of porous absorbers. These room has a table, where you can put a beer, which makes him superior to an anechioc chamber.

 

[Iwe]

Cool! I wonder where the bass roll-off in kh310 came from, they should be more or less flat down to 30 something Hz in the anechoic environment

Yes, maybe because of the missing near field measurement. These are good measurements (with Klippel Near field scanner) https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...neumann-kh-310a-review-powered-monitor.17723/

 

[holdingpants01]

Yes, maybe because of the missing near field measurement. These are good measurements (with Klippel Near field scanner) https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...neumann-kh-310a-review-powered-monitor.17723/

Ah yes distance could be a factor, I had KH310 for two years, hence my surprise

 

[ernestcarl]

a Neumann KH420 center speaker in an new build Dolby Atmos Setup with Sub KH870

Is the low frequency extension deliberately limited or high passed early for some reason? Perhaps to reduce unwanted long decays?

 

[Iwe]

Is the low frequency extension deliberately limited or high passed early for some reason? Perhaps to reduce unwanted long decays?

Great, thanks for the tip. It could be a forgotten high-pass filter in the desk, a low cut on the speaker (-12dB at 30Hz) or a modal cancellation (REW says -20dB at 40 Hz). The exact same speaker measures like this in another room

Anyway, it's not intentional. What do you think it could be? I will check next time in the room.

 

[ernestcarl]

Great, thanks for the tip. It could be a forgotten high-pass filter in the desk, a low cut on the speaker (-12dB at 30Hz) or a modal cancellation (REW says -20dB at 40 Hz). The exact same speaker measures like this in another room
View attachment 311382

Anyway, it's not intentional. What do you think it could be? I will check next time in the room.

Only way to find out is by disabling any EQ in the chain if present — just measuring the subs should be sufficient. But, it could also just be a cancellation in the LF at the same time. The subwoofer phase looks steep so my guess is there is a HPF in place — could be more than 12 dB/oct.

 

[Bow_Wazoo]

I'm here in my living room now.

Red is of course before the corrections by absorbers and EQ.

 

[holdingpants01]

I'm here in my living room now.

View attachment 311550
Red is of course before the corrections by absorbers and EQ.

Cool! What speakers and RC software?

 

[Bow_Wazoo]

These were the Monitor Audio Silver 300 6g. However, I have now replaced them, with the Magnat Signature 707.
These are absolutely fantastic.
They convey an extreme live feeling, a massive bass, and extremely high resolution.
As a player / DSP, I use Neutron player,
and then stream to the Sabaj a30a.

 

[holdingpants01]

I had some fun with REW EQ mode and managed to flatten out the response considerably. Needed to add +3dB with shelf below 200Hz as it was too bright sounding, now it's beautiful, but I'll try 0,5dB sloping down response tomorrow. This is both channels measured (not predicted) at listening position, at around 2m, L/R averaged

 

[holdingpants01]

I don't like the sloping response at all, so I'm staying with flat + low shelf

 

[Iwe]

Looks perfect I share your experience with the sloping response for near field monitoring. Yesterday I read the pinned thread by Amir Link and the linked threads again. Especially the tips from Floyd Toole are very interesting.

I would like to delve further into the topic described there "what can be EQed, what not", also with different measurements, anechoic, near field room response. Are you interested in that too?

 

[holdingpants01]

Looks perfect I share your experience with the sloping response for near field monitoring. Yesterday I read the pinned thread by Amir Link and the linked threads again. Especially the tips from Floyd Toole are very interesting.

I would like to delve further into the topic described there "what can be EQed, what not", also with different measurements, anechoic, near field room response. Are you interested in that too?

I kind of am, but on the other hand I don't see what else I can do in the room I work in, it's the best I could manage and I'm just left with listening and working on music Also almost all of the research is about home listening, but this is my studio and my needs are rather different