Technology vs Counterfeit Wine

[Wombat]

Smart Cap

 

[pozz]

@MediumRare How seriously do you take a technology like this?

 

[SIY]

Smart Cap

Gimmick. Most of the counterfeiting is in French collectibles, and it's far too late to chip (say) a 1978 DRC La Romanee. And it's not going to be difficult to reverse engineer this.

A counterfeit Grange could only be an improvement on the original.

 

[scott wurcer]

A counterfeit Grange could only be an improvement on the original.

LMAO, maybe the no such thing as terroir guy will chime in.

 

[Wombat]

Gimmick. Most of the counterfeiting is in French collectibles, and it's far too late to chip (say) a 1978 DRC La Romanee. And it's not going to be difficult to reverse engineer this.

A counterfeit Grange could only be an improvement on the original.

C'mon. The industry sees the problem as much wider than collectables. Globalisation has created a large consumer demand for quality wines from long established vineyards/wineries which are limited in their output.

 

[GD Fan]

Many premium producers have been utilizing some sort of bottle-based security for years, especially since the Rudy K scandal. This isn't the only operator in the space.

Example:
https://www.chateau-margaux.com/en/authentifier-votre-bouteille

 

[SIY]

C'mon. The industry sees the problem as much wider than collectables.

But that’s not a particularly robust or viable solution. But nice PR piece.

A nickel or dime extra per bottle knocks out 90+% of the market. Of course, real collectibles are not numerous.

 

[MediumRare]

@MediumRare How seriously do you take a technology like this?

It is a real problem, and not just collectibles. There's very little volume in collectibles. The real money is in the high-volume mid-priced wines and those are much easier to fake as well. And some buyers are looking for gray-market products and are all too willing to "look the other way" if they are getting a hot price. Like someone else said, it's very hard to prevent it. First, buyers need to be aware, second they need access to a way to check, third, if they are getting scammed there will be a way around it. Think about currency, there are several anti-forgery technologies, but how many does the average person notice or check for? It's really a benefit only for the distributors and professionals who have the will, time, and means to check.

 

[scott wurcer]

I'm with SIY on the good PR piece aspect. I always mistrust articles that don't have links to their evidence.

1. They do claim that it particularly effects premium wines.
2. The global value of wine trade is 360B or so 70B in fake wine represents 20% or so of all wine, not believable.
3. If you research the incident they cite it involved 10M liters of Spanish Rose labeled made in France, hardly a blip in the scheme of things.

With all due respect IMO many of the high volume mid-priced wines are already "fake" with prices inflated by enormous advertising budgets. One of the worst offenders is Santa Margarita Pinot Grigio for instance (IMNSHO of course).

Last time I was in Bordeaux I saw mobile labs offering the industrial manipulation of the day, at Lynch Bages the day I was there the reverse osmosis truck was doing it's thing. At another chateaux they didn't even hide the carboys of suss reserve from Germany.

 

[SIY]

Last time I was in Bordeaux I saw mobile labs offering the industrial manipulation of the day, at Lynch Bages the day I was there the reverse osmosis truck was doing it's thing. At another chateaux they didn't even hide the carboys of suss reserve from Germany.

I witnessed a 100 Parker Point Chateauneuf-du-Pape being spiked with Grenadine. So yeah, I have a deep cynicism, especially after 15 years in that industry.

 

[GD Fan]

I'm with SIY on the good PR piece aspect. I always mistrust articles that don't have links to their evidence.

1. They do claim that it particularly effects premium wines.
2. The global value of wine trade is 360B or so 70B in fake wine represents 20% or so of all wine, not believable.
3. If you research the incident they cite it involved 10M liters of Spanish Rose labeled made in France, hardly a blip in the scheme of things.

With all due respect IMO many of the high volume mid-priced wines are already "fake" with prices inflated by enormous advertising budgets. One of the worst offenders is Santa Margarita Pinot Grigio for instance (IMNSHO of course).

Last time I was in Bordeaux I saw mobile labs offering the industrial manipulation of the day, at Lynch Bages the day I was there the reverse osmosis truck was doing it's thing. At another chateaux they didn't even hide the carboys of suss reserve from Germany.

So the idea that a wine maker could be ripping off its customers invalidates the idea that they themselves would not want to be ripped off? It's rather clear that authenticity efforts are to protect them as much or more than us as consumers.

 

[scott wurcer]

So the idea that a wine maker could be ripping off its customers invalidates the idea that they themselves would not want to be ripped off? It's rather clear that authenticity efforts are to protect them as much or more than us as consumers.

Of course there is that element, the idea of fake Kim Crawford Sauvignon Blanc to anyone that knows anything about wine is hilarious.

 

[LTig]

So the idea that a wine maker could be ripping off its customers invalidates the idea that they themselves would not want to be ripped off? It's rather clear that authenticity efforts are to protect them as much or more than us as consumers.

I second that. In my youth I saw a big tank druck from Italy driving through a German wine village. My grand father said that even the Italians seem to like german wine. My father wondered though what the German wine makers would make with all this Italian wine ...

At that time there was a slogan in the German wine ads, like "German wine, blessed by the sun". We changed it to "German wine, blessed by Italian sun"...

 

[Blumlein 88]

I don't worry about this much. I've got lots of trust that none of the wine I buy at Dollar General is fake. Though the clerks distrust my ID sometimes. I only wish I was young enough to need a fake ID. Then again, its possible those gold medal winners I purchase there aren't the real deal. Sometimes I do get a bottle with off taste. I do wish they would carry Malbec however.

 

[SIY]

Of course there is that element, the idea of fake Kim Crawford Sauvignon Blanc to anyone that knows anything about wine is hilarious.

If it's bought out of the same bulk tank, is it really counterfeit?

 

[MediumRare]

I witnessed a 100 Parker Point Chateauneuf-du-Pape being spiked with Grenadine. So yeah, I have a deep cynicism, especially after 15 years in that industry.

What did you do in the industry?

 

[SIY]

What did you do in the industry?

Some winemaking, some consulting, some judging (US and France), but I was mostly known for inventing and commercializing the modern synthetic wine cork.

 

[MediumRare]

Some winemaking, some consulting, some judging (US and France), but I was mostly known for inventing and commercializing the modern synthetic wine cork.

Very interesting, there are a few different ones of course. Which one?

 

[SIY]

Very interesting, there are a few different ones of course. Which one?

Coextruded polyolefin. There's probably a billion or two per year being produced these days by a couple different companies. The molded kind are pretty much long gone.

 

[MediumRare]

Coextruded polyolefin. There's probably a billion or two per year being produced these days by a couple different companies. The molded kind are pretty much long gone.

Well done! https://www.beverageonline.com/doc/wine-industry-toasts-new-synthetic-wine-cork-0001