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Surround and Atmos speakers - couch against back wall.

mga2009

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Hi,

This is is a typical speaker location question, but NOT in your typical huge "US home" room.

My TV room is quite small: 2,50m (W) x 4,00m (L) x 2,45m (H), all concrete, with one door and one window. Room will be partially treated, with some absorbers and diffusers on wall.

The problem is that the couch is against the back wall, and IDK what type of surround speaker use and where to locate my Atmos speakers.

I aim to build a 5.1.4 system or -worst case- a 5.1.2 system.

1-. Surround Speakers
I've read recommendations that when couch is against the wall it's better to use dipole or bipole speakers. Is this true? My problem with these type of speakers are expensive and the resale value is quite low, so I would prefer an alternative. My other alternatives are:
-. Use the same speaker as the main channel (Adam T5v) installed on wall 90º from the MLP. The problem with this is that that the SL would be much further than the SR.
-. Use small satellites for surround (Genelec G1 or SVS) mounted on wall above ear level, aimed towards MLP (smaller speaker, easier to get the recommended 110º for surround)
-. Get some on wall speakers and mount them on the back wall, aimed to the front (price wise this is more expensive than the others).

2-. Atmos Speakers
Should I go with 4 channels or only 2? Considering the only 2 right above the MLP. I've read some suggestions that -even thou the best option is that the MLP sits between the 4 atmos speakers- having 4 Atmos is much better than only 2... and in this case there should be atmos right above the MLP and the other channels moved up front. The speaker choice is not defined.

Some considerations:
-. I could move the couch forward a few centimeters (3cm?)
-. All speakers will be high passed around 120hz
-. There will be around 6x 10" SW
-. Not a reference system at all, listening is done around 75-80db
-. Uploaded plan of the room.

Looking forward to your help and guidance!

Cheers
 

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mga2009

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After reading some PDF from Dolby, I think this could work for atmos location.
 

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Trouble Maker

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I had a similar question for a slightly larger room (~3.4m deep x 5.8m wide x 2.4m tall), also with the couch against the back wall. Unfortunately I got no feedback. I had the flooring in the floor above open and was pre wiring, so I wanted a good idea of where to put the height channels. I've been sidetracked on other projects and goals, so I don't have a system setup yet.

I decided to pre-wire location #1 for overhead. No strong reason other than a few layout images I could find.
 
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mga2009

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I had a similar question for a slightly larger room (~3.4m deep x 5.8m wide x 2.4m tall), also with the couch against the back wall. Unfortunately I got no feedback. I had the flooring in the floor above open and was pre wiring, so I wanted a good idea of where to put the height channels. I've been sidetracked on other projects and goals, so I don't have a system setup yet.

I decided to pre-wire location #1 for overhead. No strong reason other than a few layout images I could find.
Thanks for your reply!

I've got so similar -but not same- conclusion as you... you see, the MLP should be in the "middle" of the overhead channels, or at least that is how it is showed in the official guidelines (page 8 and 9).


The problem when the couch is against the wall is that you don't have enough space to install the overhead channels that are further from the screen, and so you lose some of the "atmospheric image" you get with atmos (like a passing plane or bullets), from front to back and side to side... but... if you manage to move the couch a little bit closet the screen and you can locate the speakers very close to the rear wall, you might get closer to the recommended position. See page 29.
 

Alexium

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Dang, this is so close to my situation! My room is a little larger, but only just. And the same asymmetric placement, close to one side wall and almost up to the back wall. I'm very curious about your findings and conclusions, as I'm not very satisfied with what I've got (4.1 currently, and certainly better than stereo, but it could be better).

Gene from Audioholics said that the atmos (height) speakers should be slightly in front of the MLP, not right above.

What I want to try is small DIY speakers for all the satellites (rear, top). Possibly coaxial. Or, maybe, it's a mistake to use wide dispersion speakers in such a crammed position and a horn should be used instead for the rears?

I wouldn't obsess with equidistant placement of left / right satellite and height speakers. Adjusting levels, delays and EQ will make them sound right in the MLP, or very near right.
 
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mga2009

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Dang, this is so close to my situation! My room is a little larger, but only just. And the same asymmetric placement, close to one side wall and almost up to the back wall. I'm very curious about your findings and conclusions, as I'm not very satisfied with what I've got (4.1 currently, and certainly better than stereo, but it could be better).

Gene from Audioholics said that the atmos (height) speakers should be slightly in front of the MLP, not right above.

Yes! In my diagram the "front" atmos speakers are around 80cm from de MLP (overhead look). Although not an expert, pretty confident that's "slightly in front" considering the standard room for Gene Delasalla, which is probably 3 or 4 times de size of my room.
 

Alexium

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The front ones - yes, but I wonder if the back ones should be slightly further to the front as well, and the front ones could be closer to the main speakers. But this is pure speculation, I have never listened to Atmos yet, in any configuration. I myself am wondering how to temporarily attach a small light (500-1000 grams) speaker to a drywall (plasterboard) ceiling without leaving permanent marks (or, at least, big obvious marks).

One weird thing about Atmos is that it should be able to properly work with arbitrary speaker placement, but there is no configuration interface to describe your room. Being object-based, Atmos should be perfectly capable of "rendering" sound through speakers at any reasonable placement, if only there was a way to actually convey your layout to the decoder. I wonder if the speaker distance information the AVR has is used for actual "rendering", or only for delay as is the case with channel-based formats.
 
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mga2009

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The front ones - yes, but I wonder if the back ones should be slightly further to the front as well, and the front ones could be closer to the main speakers. But this is pure speculation, I have never listened to Atmos yet, in any configuration. I myself am wondering how to temporarily attach a small light (500-1000 grams) speaker to a drywall (plasterboard) ceiling without leaving permanent marks (or, at least, big obvious marks).

One weird thing about Atmos is that it should be able to properly work with arbitrary speaker placement, but there is no configuration interface to describe your room. Being object-based, Atmos should be perfectly capable of "rendering" sound through speakers at any reasonable placement, if only there was a way to actually convey your layout to the decoder. I wonder if the speaker distance information the AVR has is used for actual "rendering", or only for delay as is the case with channel-based formats.
MLP should be centered (check attached picture)...

In my case this is not possible so there is compromise... MLP is not centered but more towards the back (80cm to the front atmos and 50cm to the back atmos).

This thread was to verify if this is the way to go, or if there is a better way for non-dedicated HT rooms.
 

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