• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

SOS… Lynx Hilo - Imperium - KH750 - KH80

OP
T

Toby86

Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2023
Messages
20
Likes
2
I’d prefer for the DSP not to do any more. I’ve worked a lot acoustically to get the room very good without. The DSP is just the icing on the cake. But thanks!
 

antcollinet

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Sep 4, 2021
Messages
7,540
Likes
12,620
Location
UK/Cheshire
I’d prefer for the DSP not to do any more. I’ve worked a lot acoustically to get the room very good without. The DSP is just the icing on the cake. But thanks!
Is it not worth testing at least to see if the frequency balance is what is causing the fatigue?

Many people will percieve a "too flat" in room response as sounding harsh.
 
OP
T

Toby86

Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2023
Messages
20
Likes
2
Is it not worth testing at least to see if the frequency balance is what is causing the fatigue?

Many people will percieve a "too flat" in room response as sounding harsh.
I’ve done so before, the curve I have at the moment took time to decide upon. Not I long it out entirely, but I feel it is something else. The process of elimination begins…
 

PaulieDC

Member
Joined
Feb 23, 2021
Messages
10
Likes
11
Location
AZ
Not sure if this is helpful because it's more or less been stated, but like @Jon AA said, following Neumann's instructions to the letter is key, due to how much they have going on between the software and DSP in both the 750 and 80's I have this exact setup, and it took me three tries to get it right, first and foremost, because I did not take the measurements that seriusly (when they say "Move MA1 26CM to the right, etc etc). It all finally worked when I used a tape measure and marked the floor with blue painter's tape to ensure exactness, lol! But now the output is all I was hoping for, I used a reference track (Mozart Piano Concerto) that I've known for 30 year and almost teared up when I first heard it through the now-properly-calibrated system.

Two things to note:
  • I use an RME Babyface Pro FS interface, and that gives me a choice of +4 and +19 output, and I keep it on +4dBu and the KH750 seems to be quite happy with that. I use Mogami Gold XLR cables between interface/KH750/KH80. First time I swapped the standard XLRs for the Mogami I was astonished at the difference. I thought it was snake oil (got the Mogami's on Amazon to test, planned on returning them...), but it's not, they are worth their weight in... um... gold. ;)
  • Just in the last month or so, Neumann put out an updated version of the software, first update I've seen since getting this rig a couple years ago. Do you have the latest version of the software?
Wish you the best on your quest!
 
Last edited:
OP
T

Toby86

Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2023
Messages
20
Likes
2
Not sure if this is helpful because it's more or less been stated, but like @Jon AA said, following Neumann's instructions to the letter is key, due to how much they have going on between the software and DSP in both the 750 and 80's I have this exact setup, and it took me three tries to get it right, first and foremost, because I did not take the measurements that seriusly (when they say "Move MA1 26CM to the right, etc etc). It all finally worked when I used a tape measure and marked the floor with blue painter's tape to ensure exactness, lol! But now the output is all I was hoping for, I used a reference track (Mozart Piano Concerto) that I've known for 30 year and almost teared up when I first heard it through the now-properly-calibrated system.

Two things to note:
  • I use an RME Babyface Pro FS interface, and that gives me a choice of +4 and +19 output, and I keep it on +4dBu and the KH750 seems to be quite happy with that. I use Mogami Gold XLR cables between interface/KH750/KH80. First time I swapped the standard XLRs for the Mogami I was astonished at the difference. I thought it was snake oil (got the Mogami's on Amazon to test, planned on returning them...), but it's not, they are worth their weight in... um... gold. ;)
  • Just in the last month or so, Neumann put out an updated version of the software, first update I've seen since getting this rig a couple years ago. Do you have the latest version of the software?
Wish you the best on your quest been.
Thank you for the message. I’ve been quite meticulous, using a laser tool for all measurements. I was curious if you had placed the height of the MA 1 at the acoustical axis as per the illustration above and in the KH80 manual, or at tweeter height as seen in Neumann’s YouTube setup video? I did contact Neumann and they suggested acoustical axis is optimal as that is the point of reference for them during their own measurements. Interesting…
 

PaulieDC

Member
Joined
Feb 23, 2021
Messages
10
Likes
11
Location
AZ
I did acoustical axis which is the height right where my ears are when I sit at my composing/mixing desk.
 
OP
T

Toby86

Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2023
Messages
20
Likes
2
Just to confirm, ears the same height as the Neumann badge?
My mistake, reading your message back it’s clear. I miss read. Initially I placed the MA 1 microphone at the tweeter height and then adjusted my chair to match, and yet Neumann’s video tutorial measures from the tweeter. I think it would help if Nuemann were to clarify this or perhaps give a “refer to your particular model variant for exact placement” notice as there’s probably a lot of users using the tweeter as reference point.
 
OP
T

Toby86

Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2023
Messages
20
Likes
2
I would try a parametric eq with 2.5kHz, -2.5dB and a Q-factor of 2.

P.S. if you can still hear 18kHz I would also try to use a peq there or a bit higher or lower with about -4dB and a Q-factor of 4 or 5.
I’ve just found time to experiment with your recommendation, specifically the 2.5kHz range. Interesting indeed, and I was wondering if you personally find this helpful along with a house curve or in place of? My room is currently +|- 3dB (tilt) in the frequency domain. Can I also ask the reasoning for the recommendations? Did you find them by trial and error as an issue of your room, or were they to rectify a speaker specific issue

Thanks!
 

test1223

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Jan 10, 2020
Messages
505
Likes
514
I’ve just found time to experiment with your recommendation, specifically the 2.5kHz range. Interesting indeed, and I was wondering if you personally find this helpful along with a house curve or in place of? My room is currently +|- 3dB (tilt) in the frequency domain. Can I also ask the reasoning for the recommendations? Did you find them by trial and error as an issue of your room, or were they to rectify a speaker specific issue

Thanks!
The 2.5kHz area is very important for all loudspeakers. The Neumann KH80 has a slightly higher sound power in this area. If you want to build a speaker which isn't "annoying" it is a very good strategy to lower this area. The B&W house sound is also build around that and such a sound is more "fun" compared with an absolutely neutral sounding.

For studio works you have to be aware that your speaker is most likely no perfectly neutral anyways and then it is fine to use a house curve and mix with some references mixes in mind.

The Neumann KH120 was the speaker I have had a closer look at and I never liked the speaker. My hypothesis is that the sound power wiggle of the KH120 is the thing which I don't like. The sudden drop at about 1.8khz where the tweeter starts playing and then the sound power increases fast again and then slightly until 2.5kHz. The KH80 seems to have a slightly better behavior but it isn't that different.

Honestly I would consider to change the speaker since you can only change the characteristic to some degree since direct sound and in room response are bounded and I assume that you can't equalize the speaker in away that you will like the speaker, if the out of box sound is too annoying for you.

Is the whole tilt -3dB from 20Hz to 20kHz? I won't use such a low tilt with a Neumann speaker the tweeter di is very narrow compared with the bass and in a lot of studios the high frequencies are absorbed to much. The direct sound is the first priority in a near field set-up and I would consider to tilt the high frequencies of the direct sound more down and not the other way around. So stay more to the in room frequency response tilt which a perfectly flat direct frequency response produces.
 
Last edited:
Top Bottom