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So what's wrong with this?

Yorkshire Mouth

Yorkshire Mouth

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For clarity, I don't think there's anything much wrong with 'this', but I wanted to open it up.

After several years here, I've slowly built up a hi-fi set up which I think is excellent, both subjectively and objectively, based on the principles and testing I've learned about here. Could forum members please comment with opinions.

- Front end is a WiiM Ultra Streaming DAC/Pre Amp. Measured by Amir as transparent.

- For speaker listening, that feeds a Topping PA 5 II. Measured by Amir as...maybe not absolutely transparent, but very close in measurements to the best, given the field it leaves in its wake. And powerful enough to drive...

- A pair of Wharfedale Diamond 12.1s. FR measured by Amir as very flat, apart from a 'BBC Dip' which can be mainly EQd out (and I have). Distortion is low. Please see both Amir's distortion graphs, including the onde at 76 dB (more on that in a moment), and Erin's, including Erin's graph for when using a HP filter at 80Hz (more on that in a moment, too).

- A BK XLS2000 sub. Goes down flat to mid-30s Hz. I don't listen to much (any) music with sound below that.

- For headphones, the Ultra feeds a Topping EX5 DAV/HP amp, both the DAC and amp stage are measured by Amir as transparent, and more than powerful enough to drive...

- A pair of Sennheiser HD600s, with EQ as recommended by Amir, using the Ultra's PEQ feature.

- Finally, I listen in nearfield at c.1.2m, and don't need ear-bleeding levels.

Okay, hopefully you can see where this is going. If I had a huge lounge/listening room, I might need more amplification, larger speakers, or lower distortion speakers (Revel M106s were considered). But I don't. And it's not just necessity, I actually prefer listening nearfield.

So without spending an absolute fortune, I'm not sure I could get a lot better, and in some cases not even then.

So, is there anything wrong with ^ this ^ ?

Have I missed something? Underestimated something? Overestimated something?

Because if I've understood this correctly, with the exception of the speakers (which I'd have to spend 4 figures to replace, and wouldn't get a huge improvement, even then), and a different sub for the very rare occasion I might listen to music going down to 20 Hz, that set up is pretty much...it. Hi-fi 'perfection' (there, I've said it).

Isn't it?

All comments welcome.
 
I say, "Enjoy the music!"

It doesn't sound like your dissatisfied with anything and if you want to change the sound a bit you can use EQ.

I don't know anything about your subwoofer, but often it's more-about getting enough bass than getting deep bass down to 20Hz. Of course, strong, smooth, deep bass is even better! The lowest note on a standard electric bass guitar is about 40Hz and most "pro" subs used live and in clubs only go down to around to 40Hz. It's a compromise that allows for more efficiency and more SPL output to fill a large venue with bass you can feel in your body.
 
DVDdoug said:
I say, "Enjoy the music!"

It doesn't sound like your dissatisfied with anything and if you want to change the sound a bit you can use EQ.

I don't know anything about your subwoofer, but often it's more-about getting enough bass than getting deep bass down to 20Hz. Of course, strong, smooth, deep bass is even better! The lowest note on a standard electric bass guitar is about 40Hz and most "pro" subs used live and in clubs only go down to around to 40Hz. It's a compromise that allows for more efficiency and more SPL output to fill a large venue with bass you can feel in your body.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the comments.

I've had 'bigger' subs before (including an SVS SB2000). In Ye Olde Dayes ™ I always had a stereo set up, which I then built a surround system around. The SVS went very low. It can handle 10 Hz, and if you don't want everything too loud, you could get down to that flat, more or less. And it could go far, far louder than I ever wanted or needed.

But whilst that was great with films, I found it brought nothing extra to the music. In the end I split my two systems, after buying the BK. On experimenting, the BK just wouldn't cut it with films, it was a completely different experience. But with music, the SVS brought nothing extra to the table. Again, I'm probably lucky in this respect. Listening nearfield, I just don't need masses of power and volume. I'm sure, if I took my current stereo set up, and moved it to a 5m x 7m room, it'd struggle, and the BK wouldn't be able to do the job.

I think part of what this is about is that some kit gets poorer reviews because it can't live at higher volumes. But if you don't need those higher volumes, buying 'better', more expensive kit, speakers which distort less at higher volumes, can be a waste of money.

Shall I play Devil's Advocate for a second? Let's say we take two speakers, which measure very similarly tonally. And let's say we measure the distortion of each (as Amir does) at 76 dB, 86 dB, 96 dB and 106 dB. If we review each parallel set of distortion measurements, at lower volumes the two measure quite similarly, but the second speaker is better (lower distortion) as volume increases; this is something I see an awful lot when looking at speaker reviews. But the second speaker's distortion at 96 dB is worse than the first's at 76 dB. And you only need to listen at 76 dB. Which do you buy (let's leave aside ideas that you might move to a bigger room, or resale value), given that the second costs a lot more?

I don't think you can talk about the second speaker being 'better' without adding the caveat 'but only at higher volumes'.

And yes I most certainly do 'enjoy the music', and never in my life so much as I do now with my current set up.
 
Sounds like a really nice system, and you sound happy with it - congratulations and, yes, enjoy the music!

Nothing jumps out: if you have room nodes would a second sub help (not if you don't), you can always spend more on headphones and speakers (but, again, you probably have to spend big to make a worthwhile change - and that may not be worth it)

ASR really messes with a 'traditional' (audiophile) upgrade path doesn't it. When you get to GOOD and you know there's no objective point making any changes. It's frustrating sometimes :)

My next upgrade is waiting for a new room (which ain't gonna happen anytime soon!)
 
JeremyFife said:
Sounds like a really nice system, and you sound happy with it - congratulations and, yes, enjoy the music!

Nothing jumps out: if you have room nodes would a second sub help (not if you don't), you can always spend more on headphones and speakers (but, again, you probably have to spend big to make a worthwhile change - and that may not be worth it)

ASR really messes with a 'traditional' (audiophile) upgrade path doesn't it. When you get to GOOD and you know there's no objective point making any changes. It's frustrating sometimes :)

My next upgrade is waiting for a new room (which ain't gonna happen anytime soon!)
Click to expand...

Thank you.

I use the room correction feature on the Ultra.

I read quite a lot on different theories about nodes, sub placement, etc., and tried out quite a few ideas.

In the end, this is what worked for me. I first measured with sub dead centre. Measured. Nodes. So then sub in corner. The idea is, you get 'mad bass' but are less likely to get nodes (or as many, or as bad). When I tried this it worked; I think I got lucky. Not much in the way of nodes, at all, some peaks which I could easily pull down. I was ready to buy a second sub, but not necessary.
 
Yorkshire Mouth said:
Subjectively, nothing. I absolutely love it. Best hi-fi I've ever had.

Objectively, nothing. But don't we all very occasionally think to ourselves, can it really be this good? Am I deluding myself?
Click to expand...
Sounds to me as if you need corroboration of your own success in order to accept it. Invite some people who care about sound to listen it and reassure you.
Otherwise, see a counselor or therapist.
 
It’s all about enjoying what you have. I’ve had the luxury of 50 up years going to garage and estate sales, and trying hundreds of different items.

Now I’m settled and just want the convenience of playlists. I have nothing high end, but it is all adequate. I have music going almost 24/7.
 
Petrushka said:
It’s all about enjoying what you have. I’ve had the luxury of 50 up years going to garage and estate sales, and trying hundreds of different items.

Now I’m settled and just want the convenience of playlists. I have nothing high end, but it is all adequate. I have music going almost 24/7.
Click to expand...

Now, this is another level.

I've finally freed myself from playlists. I literally 'create' new compilation albums instead of playlists, frankenstein them together, and put them in my Various Artists folder (or in the artist's folder if it's a 'best of'. I then use folder view.

Some duplication, but USB storage is cheap, and I use folder view 99% of the time, so it's not an issue.

The stuff I've (re)created. Old compilations I no longer have. The Beatles' Yellow Submarine EP (look it up). It's almost as much fun doing it as listening to it.
 
Be happy , definitely don't go looking at the thread(s) about stereo bass , that might increase the therapy bill!

Other than my Wiim streamer and a pair of IEMs, I've not bought any audio equipment since around 2020 . Have messed about with room software and EQ though and having to stay away from the stereo subwoofer threads myself!
 

So what's wrong with this?​


Nothing seems to me.

But only YOU can really answer that question;)
if you're happy with it it's all good, enjoy.
 
Yorkshire Mouth said:
:D

Spot on.
Click to expand...
It took me months to get my system where I felt as you did but it was not until I had a colleague visit and confirm (most of) what I was hearing that I was able to be comfortable with it. That's not to say that there aren't things still to do. :)

See Herb's visit
 
Yorkshire Mouth said:
Subjectively, nothing. I absolutely love it. Best hi-fi I've ever had.

Objectively, nothing. But don't we all very occasionally think to ourselves, can it really be this good? Am I deluding myself?
Click to expand...
You are deluding yourself. But only about Yorkshire being God's County! Don't tell my Missus mind, she is from Guisborough. :cool:
 
Kal Rubinson said:
It took me months to get my system where I felt as you did but it was not until I had a colleague visit and confirm (most of) what I was hearing that I was able to be comfortable with it. That's not to say that there aren't things still to do. :)

See Herb's visit
Click to expand...

That's quite special, thanks so much for sharing.
 
Looks like a "good enough" system.
Yorkshire Mouth said:
- A pair of Wharfedale Diamond 12.1s. FR measured by Amir as very flat, apart from a 'BBC Dip' which can be mainly EQd out (and I have).
Click to expand...
Largely, yes, but not entirely:
specs


There's also traces of what I assume to be a cabinet resonance at 300 Hz, so some DIY efforts at bracing may be appreciated.
specs

Also, the H3 peak around 1.3 kHz suggests woofer breakup around 3.9 kHz, so investigating a crossover mod to include a series notch for the woofer (which ideally would merely be a parallel L-C in series with the woofer's plus lead, maybe an R-L-C) would be another avenue to explore. Theory says you need about 0.1 mH || 16.6 µF, 0.15 mH || 11.0 µF or 0.22 mH || 7.5 µF (with the odds for needing another parallel resistor increasing with L/C = Q²), so two parallel caps would probably be needed.
 
I think the major overlooked thing here is the Room you are listening in. Even with great gear, and even great rooms, there will almost certainly be some room correction required. You've not mentioned the size of your room, furnishings etc, these can all have a massive impact on the sound quality. Not sure what software you are using for playback, can you add some DSP/room correction? PS I'm on the journey myself, got myself some nice new gear and am amazed at what difference room correction filters can make.
 
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