• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

Single subwoofer mono input vs stereo input dB difference

aikofan

Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2022
Messages
87
Likes
88
Location
US
I have a single subwoofer (JL Audio D110) with only the left input connected to my miniDSP Flex. However, the subwoofer has been cutting out intermittently, so I want to try connecting both L+R inputs to see if that might solve this problem.

So when going from one mono input to both inputs in stereo on the subwoofer, do I need to reduce the gain on both channels on my Flex by 6dB? Or is it -3dB or -10dB?
 

gnarly

Major Contributor
Joined
Jun 15, 2021
Messages
1,037
Likes
1,471
Songs vary too much in how they were mastered to put a hard number on it.
Plus, imso it's best to set sub levels by ear in real-time, with either simple sub level adjustment, or EQ such as variable shelving..
 
OP
aikofan

aikofan

Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2022
Messages
87
Likes
88
Location
US
Songs vary too much in how they were mastered to put a hard number on it.
Plus, imso it's best to set sub levels by ear in real-time, with either simple sub level adjustment, or EQ such as variable shelving..
Interesting, JL Audio tech support basically told me the same thing, saying there’s no set number. I’ve seen posts about changing the levels when going from single input to Y splitter and also when going from single to double subs, and they were talking about specific dB adjustments, so I would have assumed there was also a set formula for how the level changes when going from mono to stereo inputs on a single sub.
 

DVDdoug

Major Contributor
Joined
May 27, 2021
Messages
3,035
Likes
4,000
So when going from one mono input to both inputs in stereo on the subwoofer, do I need to reduce the gain on both channels on my Flex by 6dB? Or is it -3dB or -10dB?
It depends on the internal circuitry...

If there is a passive mixer (made with resistors) there will be no difference (assuming the same bass in both channels). If you ground one of the inputs on a passive mixer, you'll cut the signal in half (-6dB) but normally the 2nd connection is just left open-unconnected.

An active mixer will sum and you'll get +6dB.

It should be easy to experiment...
 

gnarly

Major Contributor
Joined
Jun 15, 2021
Messages
1,037
Likes
1,471
Interesting, JL Audio tech support basically told me the same thing, saying there’s no set number. I’ve seen posts about changing the levels when going from single input to Y splitter and also when going from single to double subs, and they were talking about specific dB adjustments, so I would have assumed there was also a set formula for how the level changes when going from mono to stereo inputs on a single sub.

Yep, your assumption that there would be a set formula makes logical sense.....and is true for identical left and right signals being summed.
Like as DVDdoug explained.

I've found through tons of experimentation, mono vs stereo, (that I do as part of DIY speaker building)...that you just can't ever tell how sub bass was mastered, whether there is identical signal left and right, or with phase differences, or entirely different signal.
So summation gets complex, especially when you add in are you going from two speakers left and right producing stereo sub bass, to splitting the summed stereo sub bass to a single subwoofer.

Here's a remote control i built for switching between stereo and mono (along with some center speaker matrixing) ...just to show I'm not BS'ing about the experimentation.

And that I REALLY do advise being able to adjust sub levels easily, when needed. No matter what one's speaker setup is.
I believe Mr. Toole says the same.

LCR remote.JPG
 

goat76

Major Contributor
Joined
Jul 21, 2021
Messages
1,339
Likes
1,485
And that I REALLY do advise being able to adjust sub levels easily, when needed. No matter what one's speaker setup is.
I believe Mr. Toole says the same.

The solution to not having to fiddle that much with the subwoofer level is to get another subwoofer and set them both up in a true stereo configuration, one for the left channel and the other for the right channel. That way you will get the "right" level of sub-bass every time as long as you are fine with the bass level set at the production stage.


With two subwoofers set up in stereo:
  • You will get stereo bass when the mix contains such information.
  • You will avoid phase cancelations at the signal level that is meant to happen acoustically (which in turn can help create a more enveloping sound according to David Griesinger).
  • And when the bass is already summed to mono at the production stage, it will be summed to mono acoustically anyway.


With just one subwoofer:
  • With a signal only from either the left or the right channel, it will only be half the bass energy if the sub-bass was already summed to mono during the audio production. To adjust this, the level must therefore be increased by 3 dB, but this level adjustment will, unfortunately, give you the wrong level of bass if the audio production contains stereo bass.
  • With a stereo signal to a single subwoofer, you should in most cases get the correct level no matter if the sub-bass was summed to mono during the audio production, or if it contains stereo bass. But the thing that can't be avoided with this solution is the phase cancellation that will occur at the signal level if the production contains stere bass information, and that same problem will also occur with multiple subwoofers set up in mono.


Since I started using two subwoofers set up in a stereo configuration, I have not felt any need to fiddle with the levels, it sounds correct with everything I play which is a relief. :)
 

gnarly

Major Contributor
Joined
Jun 15, 2021
Messages
1,037
Likes
1,471
The solution to not having to fiddle that much with the subwoofer level is to get another subwoofer and set them both up in a true stereo configuration, one for the left channel and the other for the right channel. That way you will get the "right" level of sub-bass every time as long as you are fine with the bass level set at the production stage.


With two subwoofers set up in stereo:
  • You will get stereo bass when the mix contains such information.
  • You will avoid phase cancelations at the signal level that is meant to happen acoustically (which in turn can help create a more enveloping sound according to David Griesinger).
  • And when the bass is already summed to mono at the production stage, it will be summed to mono acoustically anyway.


With just one subwoofer:
  • With a signal only from either the left or the right channel, it will only be half the bass energy if the sub-bass was already summed to mono during the audio production. To adjust this, the level must therefore be increased by 3 dB, but this level adjustment will, unfortunately, give you the wrong level of bass if the audio production contains stereo bass.
  • With a stereo signal to a single subwoofer, you should in most cases get the correct level no matter if the sub-bass was summed to mono during the audio production, or if it contains stereo bass. But the thing that can't be avoided with this solution is the phase cancellation that will occur at the signal level if the production contains stere bass information, and that same problem will also occur with multiple subwoofers set up in mono.


Since I started using two subwoofers set up in a stereo configuration, I have not felt any need to fiddle with the levels, it sounds correct with everything I play which is a relief. :)

I can agree with your (well said ) technical assessments of 'two subs in stereo', and 'just one subwoofer'.

But not with the idea of not needing to adjust levels when using subs in true stereo configuration, that all tracks will have the "right" level of bass.
(By bass, I mean less than about 100Hz.)

With the remote I showed, stereo means left and right, each side with its own sub.
(All three channels shown on the remote, LCR, are identical speakers each with their own sub.)
So the stereo preset means as you called it, left and right in 'true stereo configuration'.

Music across genres varies so much, the idea of one sub level doesn't begin to hold for me.
Heck, even on the same album sometimes, sub bass can vary too much track by track, not adjust level / EQ.

The tonal imbalances in tracks from too much / too little sub, is apparent in any speaker configuration....stereo, matrixed LCR, any single speaker in summed mono, any set of speakers running summed mono. etc
Music simply varies too much....easy to use levels/EQ's add a much to my enjoyment.
 
OP
aikofan

aikofan

Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2022
Messages
87
Likes
88
Location
US
After activating the second channel on my sub (which took way longer than expected because after opening my miniDSP Device Console for the first time in months, I found out I was many versions out of date, but after updating all the software, I had no output, and it took me half the afternoon trying different things to finally get some sound again), I noticed a little too much bass on some songs, so I reduced the gain -3dB on both sub channels. But after that, other songs sounded a little too thin, even after going to -1.5dB, so I ended up leaving the levels the same as before. So I found out, as others on this thread have pointed out, that summing the stereo bass digitally in the miniDSP vs summing it in analog in the sub has different impacts on different songs depending on their mix and mastering. I learned a lot from folks who chimed in on this thread, so I appreciate the contributions. I never knew it was so complicated. But a second sub is definitely on my future upgrades list, although a more pressing need for me right now might be a simpler and more reliable preamp/DSP solution (possibly a Lyngdorf?).
 
Top Bottom