Sheffield Lab Albums - yay or nay?

[posvibes]

. I don't think any of the musicians need any introduction, they're all 1st class session players.

Man there are some names that were everywhere at the time, Michael Omartian I haven't thought of that name for eons, Jim Horn and Jim Gilstrap and Lord bless Jim Keltner forever, when I think of the music I have where all these people turned up and put in. Flicking through the album racks at the time and checking the credits knowing that any of those luminaries on a track or two guaranteed a kind of quality whoever the main act was.

 

[egellings]

My Decca EQ'ed LPs are going to disagree.

So long as you have the same Decca Playback EQ, it should sound fine.

 

[ferrellms]

I grew up with these. My dad tried collecting the entire catalog, be it on CD or vinyl and I was the direct beneficiary.

To this day, they are my favorite old school "audiophile" record label (vs. Reference Recordings, Telarc, Chesky, etc.). I just love the sound of their recordings in general and I think they hold up pretty well to this day.

Too bad they were to focused on the direct-to-disc thing when they should've also done direct to digital (assuming the tech was already available then, I'm not sure.) Today I still listen to their CDs which is from analog tape and wonder how much limitations tape made to their recordings (tape saturation, etc.). I wonder how the recordings would've sounded if they were direct to 24-bit, 44.1k digital.

Anyway, I just wanted to get everyone's thoughts about Sheffield Lab recordings. Good? Bad? Ugly? Fire away.

I had a bunch of these on vinyl. They were cleaner, more dynamic, and less noisy than typical vinyl, even the best, of the time. Not a huge difference, but a clear one. Music was OK. Once I got to CD, far better than vinyl in all measurable ways, (and to my ears) bye bye vinyl. The one or 2 CDs I bought from them since were just like any other carefully made CD.

 

[Robin L]

I had a bunch of these on vinyl. They were cleaner, more dynamic, and less noisy than typical vinyl, even the best, of the time. Not a huge difference, but a clear one. Music was OK. Once I got to CD, far better than vinyl in all measurable ways, (and to my ears) bye bye vinyl. The one or 2 CDs I bought from them since were just like any other carefully made CD.

There were a number of different LP issues around that time that had superior vinyl. I would note in particular the Verve Japanese issues as having superior vinyl, dead silent backgrounds. Only problem was the tendency for the EQ to be tipped up in the treble. I found this tendency in all Japanese pressings of the time, so sometimes the background hiss became much more audible. This was around 1976/80, just before CDs entered the scene with truly silent backgrounds. Also, the earliest Teldec issues were wide dynamic recordings on superior vinyl, favored as demo discs in audio boutiques of the time. Those were derived from early DSD recordings and took some time to reappear as CDs later on.

 

[posvibes]

The biggest disappointment for me around that time were the first two digitally recorded albums of Ry Cooper; Bop to you drop and Bordeline. I had both on vinyl and both sounded tinny especially Borderline. And its a shame because of the great material and performances on both.

I also believe it was the engineering right from the start to blame because even the CD editions seem to me be very toppy lacking oomph!

Maybe the struggled with the new digital technology back then. Anybody else familiar with those albums and share my disappointment. I've waited a long time to het that off my chest. Normal service will now be resumed!

 

[egellings]

At least some cutting lathe's might not have the saturation effect and soft treble with sort of built in compression that tape has.

I'd agree however, record to quality tape and playback from quality tape is higher fidelity than going via the LP route even direct-to-disc.

If I understood it right, a cutting lathe could cut a groove with a velocity so high that no known cartridge could track it.

 

[Brent71]

Michael Omartian I haven't thought of that name for eons,

There's a funny story about Omartian and the track Dish Rag off this album from legendary producer/engineer Bill Schnee. This is from his website, and access is included when you buy his book. I've left out some of the stuff in the middle, but left the relevant parts.

"One time when I went to Michael’s (Omartian) house, he showed me the ‘unusual’ instrumental idea he was working on, which was a rag. Ragtime is a genre of music based on the piano from the early 1900s, with its roots in the African American community of New Orleans. Its predominant feature is a fast moving left hand pattern of bass notes and a syncopated melody in the right hand. That sounded like a great left field addition to the reggae instrumental and my more rock tune (Pressure Cooker). ...

About ten days before the sessions, Michael O. called me and said we couldn’t use his rag for the album. What he had written was so incredibly difficult to play, that even though he’d practiced and practiced, he just couldn’t quite play it perfectly. He said to drop the song and suggested we do a blues tune and he would throw together a quick arrangement. I absolutely hated that idea. Once again, I had to call Doug (Sax) with more bad news. More curse words aimed at Michael were uttered. After he reported this newest glitch to Lincoln (Mayorga), Doug called and asked if Michael could get the rag transcribed onto manuscript paper. I said I was sure he could do that.

...

Remember that problem with Michael O. not being able to play his rag instrumental? As requested, he had gotten it transcribed and the incredible number of notes made it look like the proverbial fly poop on paper. For maximum effect, I had rented a tack piano for this one tune. At the end of the lunch break, Lincoln, Michael, and I went over to the tack piano. Lincoln sat down, looked at the music and asked, “so how does this go?” He proceeded to play the piece near perfectly his first time reading the notes! I thought Michael was going to faint. Lincoln ran it down one more time, and said he was ready to do it.

I guess that just goes to show how truly talented Lincoln was on piano.

 

[Ifrit]

Got the two Sheffield Labs titles with the LA Philharmonic, Leinsdorf and company sounding tentative in a scoring stage.

Wasn't LA Phil recorded in Dorothy Chandler Pavilion? I had Leinsdorf LP with Wagner, I think it said it was recorded there. By no means it is a good sounding hall, anyway.

 

[Robin L]

Wasn't LA Phil recorded in Dorothy Chandler Pavilion? I had Leinsdorf LP with Wagner, I think it said it was recorded there. By no means it is a good sounding hall, anyway.

I recall (dim, distant memory) that a scoring stage was used for the Sheffield Labs discs. Sounded "dead" and dry to these ears. Also, from dim memory, recall that the LA Phil preferred Royce Hall of the UCLA campus for recordings.

 

[Ifrit]

I recall (dim, distant memory) that a scoring stage was used

You're right. MGM Studios, whatever that was in Culver City those days (Sony now?)

 

[mSpot]

I recall (dim, distant memory) that a scoring stage was used for the Sheffield Labs discs. Sounded "dead" and dry to these ears.

Everybody says it sounds dead and dry except Sheffield Lab, which describes it as "the rich acoustical environment of Stage One, MGM Studios"
https://sheffieldlab.com/item.php?item_id=17

 

[Brent71]

I knew I made the right decision of creating this thread. Soaking in the insider/historical info as well as opinions. Apologies I couldn't contribute much. I'm also not into classical, so the Sheffield albums that I like are the Jazz and Funk ones.

37 posts in and no one has mentioned the newer albums such as Clair Marlo, Michael Ruff, Michael Allen Harrison, Pat Coil, etc. Are they that forgettable? Haha.

Somehow I just noticed your comment all this time later. Clair Marlo was recorded at Bill Schnee's studio, and Michael Ruff was recorded at Oceanway. On the cover of Let It Go it says "performed live to two track" and on Speaking in Melodies it says "live studio recordings." I believe the Pat Coil, Michael Allen Harrison, The Power of Seven and The Usual Suspects were also all recorded live to two track tape. From what I can figure out from Dicogs, it looks like the last D2D albums Sheffield recorded were done 1984 - 1985, everything after that was recorded live to two track tape.

 

[Snarfie]

I liked the sound quality, but the music was somewhat uninvolving. Maybe the musicians were trying too hard not to make a mistake while playing, since a whole side of a direct-to-disk LP would have to be played & recorded over if an error happened. That could have crimped their style somewhat. Sound quality is superb, however. I have some of the LPs.

Some exceptions Kiki Dee - i've got the music in me an Thelma Houston - Don't leave me this way. Both authentic performance hugh dynamic sound the kick drums really slams.
Thought i had Kiki Dee on Vinyl direct cut. Later on CD.