Sennheiser HD600 Review (Headphone)

[Robbo99999]

delete

 

[ericw]

For another data point, here's ClarityFidelity's HD 600 vs HD 650 measurement: (note that these are aligned at around 4 kHz - if you aligned at 100Hz, you'd have the HD 650 having a lower 3.5kHz peak similar to Oratory's measurements I guess?)

from: https://clarityfidelity.blogspot.com/2016/04/sennheiser-hd-600-over-ear-headphones.html?view=sidebar

 

[JIW]

Not so sure. My HD600 were bought around 2013 and came with a 6.35mm termination. I like the cable (much more so than the one on the HD800s I recently got), except for the sheer length.

The adapter is attached to the cable when new. It looks like in the video below.

 

[Jimbob54]

Sometime soon we are going to open the can of worms that is "how audible is a dB or 2 of eq difference when playing music? "

 

[Robbo99999]

Sometime soon we are going to open the can of worms that is "how audible is a dB or 2 of eq difference when playing music? "

Depends on the Q value (width of influence) and where in the frequency range, it's not really a can of worms. In my EQ experimentation I've found it quite obvious the differences even with 1 dB when it's over a large part of the frequency range. According to the differences between HD600 & HD650 you're talking a dB or two over large widths, so I would experience those as audible differences if switching quickly between different EQ's on the same portion of a track I know well.

 

[Jimbob54]

Depends on the Q value (width of influence) and where in the frequency range, it's not really a can of worms. In my EQ experimentation I've found it quite obvious the differences even with 1 dB when it's over a large part of the frequency range. According to the differences between HD600 & HD650 you're talking a dB or two over large widths, so I would experience those as audible differences if switching quickly between different EQ's.

No doubt. I believe I can tell the difference too when I toggle a 1db/2db /3db bass shelf too. But when there are other small differences in play in other areas of the spectrum, or when you have to unplug and swap cans, maybe not as obvious perhaps.

 

[Jimbob54]

No doubt. I believe I can tell the difference too when I toggle a 1db/2db /3db bass shelf too. But when there are other small differences in play in other areas of the spectrum, or when you have to unplug and swap cans, maybe not as obvious perhaps.

I suppose I'm asking how obvious is the claimed difference people are stating between the 600 and 650. Might be possible to do a blind test given physical similarities?

(I've only heard 600, not 650 so have no frame of reference)

 

[Robbo99999]

No doubt. I believe I can tell the difference too when I toggle a 1db/2db /3db bass shelf too. But when there are other small differences in play in other areas of the spectrum, or when you have to unplug and swap cans, maybe not as obvious perhaps.

Yeah, very hard to tell the difference when unplugging & swapping cans, due to the longer time difference, but easier when toggling an EQ. Even if that is the case, I'd still rather choose the headphone that is closer to my preference.

Low dB differences over small frequency ranges are hard to hear, but it does depend on frequency.....I've not played about too much with audible differences of filters, but generally I think I can hear Q2 of around 1 dB in most areas around 1kHz-3kHz as a general idea where hearing is most sensitive. Q2 is my favourite filter!

EDIT: Physically comparing HD600 & 650 would be difficult because you're swapping cans, but simulating the different measured frequency responses and flipping the EQ switch would show you the difference.

 

[Dr Schweinsgruber]

@amirm: Would you please repeat your measurements and listening impressions with the following changes:

1) Add new earpads to the HD 600 and HD 650 to remove the effects of aging and compare "like" with "like"
2) Swap currently used earpads between HD 600 and HD 650

Reasoning:

It has been documented by so many measurements from so many people that when HD600 pads wear/compress, they start sounding more like HD650s because the upper mids get relatively suppressed.​

​

I think this is a fair request. If all of the above leads to the same result, your initial statement "both perform the same" is universally valid...and not only for these two specimens (with all their wear and tear) tested.​

 

[Robbo99999]

@amirm: Would you please repeat your measurements and listening impressions with the following changes:

1) Add new earpads to the HD 600 and HD 650 to remove the effects of aging and compare "like" with "like"
2) Swap currently used earpads between HD 600 and HD 650

Reasoning:

It has been documented by so many measurements from so many people that when HD600 pads wear/compress, they start sounding more like HD650s because the upper mids get relatively suppressed.​

​

I think this is a fair request. If all of the above leads to the same result, your initial statement "both perform the same" is universally valid...and not only for these two specimens (with all their wear and tear) tested.​

That's quite a good idea, especially point #1, but it may be a bit too much to ask for subjective listening differences when swapping cans given the relatively long length of time between swapping....certainly measurements would show the difference though. It could be argued that there are enough other measurements out there that we know that there are subtle differences between HD600 & HD650 (Crinacle / Oratory / Solderdude)....do we need another data point to confirm that.....I wouldn't say no, but personally I'm convinced of the subtle & measurable difference between HD600 & HD650 as all those 3 sources I mentioned show consistent differences between the two headphones.

 

[Fregly]

RE: HD600 vs HD650, I got a slightly different result. Do note that in this comparison I've managed to measure brand new 2020 versions of both the HD600 and HD650 ("2020 versions" being that the granite countertop aethestic of the older HD600s are done away) as well as fresh pads.

View attachment 128789

(3 samples per channel for a total of 6 samples per headphone, averaged out.)​

Not a huge difference of course, but enough for me to prefer one over the other (HD600 over HD650 in my case). I don't think the two are functionally identical though I will concede that pad wear actually does minimise the differences between the two, to the point where well-worn HD600s and HD650s are virtually indistinguishable to my ears.

(Before anyone comments that my 43AG-7 setup makes my data unreliable, do note that I have a custom-built mounting solution that spaces out the cups to the width of an average human head, much like the 45CA.)

These measurements are how I heard these phones when I had them. Amir's show them more similar. At least with the iterations I had the 600 was better, in terms of accuracy, and the 650 a little soupy.

 

[Fernando]

@amirm Could you repeat the test doing a one-legged cartwheel? Better after a good glass of Bourbon.
If it's not too much to ask.

 

[PuX]

pretty sure the difference between 600 and 650/6XX comes to:
1 slightly different tuning of the driver
2 better driver matching & quality control on the 650
3 different box/cable/finish

58X are different though, I have 6XX and 58X and did not like 58X initially too much for music so I use them for calls/meetings mostly. maybe will give them another chance sometime.

660S is intriguing because it is supposed to be a next-gen driver, but I think Tyll's review said it lacks the "lush highs", which is a shame. also I think I read 660S does not scale as well as 600/650 with better amps.

the joke site where people think that the 600 and 650 are the same, while every random people in the street could tell the clear difference.

it is quite possible that they are imagining hearing the difference and would not be able to tell them apart in a blind test.

 

[Jimbob54]

it is quite possible that they are imagining hearing the difference and would not be able to tell them apart in a blind test.

If you said that in a DAC thread your hand would be sore from all the hi-5s.

 

[Robbo99999]

If you said that in a DAC thread your hand would be sore from all the hi-5s.

We all know comparing DACS and comparing headphones/speakers are a whole different ball game! Definitely not a DAC thread here.

 

[Tatr76]

Deluded folks.

Likewise for the HD660S vs the 58X. When I saw Sennheiser was using the same 150 ohm spec. It didnt take much to conclude their lazy asses werent doing anything special.

Also, whats up with the prices on their site? $500 for an HD650 (and now both their 600 and 650 are out of stock for some reason). When did they reach these prices? They have lost their minds.

In UK 600's $320, 650 $340 with delivery

 

[Jimbob54]

We all know comparing DACS and comparing headphones/speakers are a whole different ball game! Definitely not a DAC thread here.

Of course its not a DAC thread. But we have a rare chance here. My understanding is that if you have new pads on a 600 and a 650, they will feel the same. A true blind test should be possible. 2 identical amps, fed from the same DAC, a rig to check the levels out of both cans are the same.

I even volunteer to be the pad warmer for the set not under test so there isnt a cold pair.

 

[restorer-john]

By the way, would Karman happen to be a portmanteau Harman Kardon?

First thing I saw too!

Poor child, imagine being named after Harman Kardon. Probably @amirm originally was going to call him Sonny (Sony), but thought better of it.

 

[Jimbob54]

First thing I saw too!

Poor child, imagine being named after Harman Kardon. Probably @amirm originally was going to call him Sonny (Sony), but thought better of it.

Could be worse, he could be Karman Hardon

 

[restorer-john]

Could be worse, he could be Karman Hardon

It is. That's his middle name.