Sennheiser HD600 Review (Headphone)

[paolomo]

Just to put things in context, the street price difference in Europe between the 600 and the 650 is around 20 Euros (~25 USD) - so it's not a huge difference (in the audiophile crazy world) and it might be indeed justified by differences in the external materials used: padding, type of plastics, etc. At the end, if you think that one sounds better than the other or if you simply don't like the blue sticker on the 600 go ahead and splash the 25 dollar more on the 650 .

You are being rational on the internet. Is it legal?

 

[Robbo99999]

Thank you for your help. I am using Oratory EQ for K702, it seems the best for my ears. My pads are not very good, so the first step should be to change them. Anyway, sometimes it is not bad to buy something new .
Is it enough to buy these pads?
https://www.music-city.cz/akg-2458m12010-am0016673

Make sure you're using his EQ for the K702 standard version, not the Anniversary Edition, so use this one (a newly added measurement the past couple of weeks): https://www.dropbox.com/s/033kxyf8a0o3iv6/AKG K702.pdf?dl=0
Given that Oratory's K702 measurement & Crinacle's K701 measurement are really quite similar and certainly sharing the peaks in the same places, then using Oratory's K702 EQ is definitely close to ideal.....but there are still a few wide small broad differences so you'd probably get better tonality with a K701 specific EQ based on Crinacle's measurement. Also I could factor in pad wear, Oratory's measurement of my K702 with new vs old pads:

Essentially old pads increase sub 1kHz by around 2dB, so you could instead try adding the following filter to your K702 Oratory EQ to account for the pad wear: Low Shelf, 900Hz (Center Frequency), -2dB, Q0.707
(Oratory said to ignore that the lines crossed over in the bass as he said the worn pad measurement sub 50Hz was innacurate, instead assume a constant 2dB difference sub 1kHz).

EDIT: I don't really recommend putting on aftermarket pads as this will change the frequency response, and therefore invalidate the measurements that EQ's are based on.....so try to get some genuine pads from Thomann or somewhere, but you might be fine just trying the Low Shelf Filter I mentioned above and keeping on using your old pads.

 

[nakamoto]

You are being rational on the internet. Is it legal?

lol... not sure, need to check on the forum guidlines

 

[Dr Schweinsgruber]

This is what rting says: https://www.rtings.com/headphones/t...heiser-hd-600/245/325?usage=20&threshold=0.10

View attachment 129147

You agree with this?

If rtings says this, it must be right. No need to measure anything or to argue about worn pads.

 

[Limopard]

You are being rational on the internet. Is it legal?

I wish it was...

 

[PuX]

How poor combination of DAC/amp are we talking about?

1) what is a “poor source”?
2) what is a “poor amp”?

let's say something cheap / old / poorly engineered? quite realistically it should be possible to tell apart an amp with 80 db SNR vs another amp with 100 db SNR?

I have used it with solid state amps, tube amps, hybrids, simple headphone outputs on Marantz SA-KI Pearl Lite or Denon DRM-800. No matter what, HD650 always sound like HD650. They are very easy to drive and sound excellent.

but surely they sound better when you plug them in your best amp vs your worst one?
for example if I use them with an old iPod or onboard sound from a laptop - they will sound fine, but with a JDSLabs Atom they sound better. so the source still matters.

I can fire up Tidal on a browser and plug my HD650 into whatever electronics Thinkpad deigned to put inside their business laptops - and stil get better sound than from most headphones.

no argument here, but there is no way 650 sound as good straight from a laptop onboard sound vs what they sound plugged in a decent DAC+AMP.

But given the choice between HD580 or HD650 on a bad laptop and, e.g., Grados on a trillion dollar amp, I'd pick the former every time.

I was thinking "scales up with better amps" means you take the same pair of headphones, plug it into a good modern amp and your headphones sound better then they sound with a good amp from 10/20 years ago (or same logic but with price, cheap vs expensive).
and this logic is supposed to apply to HD650/600/580, but not as much with other models, at least that's how I understood "scales up with better amps".

 

[Leporello]

Just to put things in context, the street price difference in Europe between the 600 and the 650 is around 20 Euros (~25 USD) - so it's not a huge difference (in the audiophile crazy world) and it might be indeed justified by differences in the external materials used: padding, type of plastics, etc. At the end, if you think that one sounds better than the other or if you simply don't like the blue sticker on the 600 go ahead and splash the 25 dollar more on the 650 .

I like the blue sticker. Now that blue marble look is gone the HD600 looks very utilitarian. I prefer it to the faux luxury look of the HD650.

 

[Limopard]

I like the blue sticker. Now that blue marble look is gone the HD600 looks very utilitarian. I prefer it to the faux luxury look of the HD650.

Yes. But before the re-design I strongly preferred the 650. Or a 580 with 600 grills and 650 cable. The latter just for durability.

 

[Leporello]

no argument here, but there is no way 650 sound as good straight from a laptop onboard sound vs what they sound plugged in a decent DAC+AMP.

Perhaps the HD650 is different but I have a hard time hearing the difference between my laptop and Benchmark DAC1 when using my HD600s.

 

[Aperiodic]

Sennheiser probably don’t care. They just sold their consumer branch. The new owner wants to concentrate on Bluetooth. I won’t be surprised if all these audiophile headphones get dropped from production soon.

They might keep the 'Deep End' models like the 800 series, but otherwise, yeah... As someone who has owned various Sennheisers over the years (including the classic 650. the headphone so many love to hate), I am very sad that Sennheiser has sold off their consumer operation. In virtually every buyout, the first agenda item is to cut costs. AKG is a good example; first thing that happened was the relocation of all production from Austria to cheap-labor China, Sennheiser will probably pursue a similar strategy.

 

[PuX]

Perhaps the HD650 is different but I have a hard time hearing the difference between my laptop and Benchmark DAC1 when using my HD600s.

intersting.

in my case I have compared Arcam rHead vs JDSLabs Atom as amps and these DACs: JDSLabs EL DAC, JDSLabs OL DAC and Massdrop/Grace SDAC - I wouldn't say the difference is huge but it felt like they aren't all the same. not to the level where I could tell which one is which in a blind test, but some difference is there (and of course it is measurable).

I prefer it to the faux luxury look of the HD650.

nice, I didn't realise they kept the silver-grainy (wet asphalt?) look on 650.

 

[amirm]

If rtings says this, it must be right. No need to measure anything or to argue about worn pads.

Well, no. That is why I measured and listened. I post that because the poster was claiming he was representing the entire Internet having completely different view of this headphone. So I showed that a top 5 review site for headphones saying completely otherwise. That the difference is very hard to hear with listening.

Their measurements showed why: only 0.9 dB difference in bass in the two. If I ever tried to make a case about a headphone response down to 0.9 dB, you can take me out back and shoot me! Even speaker measurements are allowed to differ by far more.

As to arguing anyway, you are welcome to do so. Just don't drag me into it and make it a fight to death. I have ton of other reviews to get out than dealing with such a fixation. And others come to review threads to discuss something else than you proving you are right across a hundred posts.

 

[Dr Schweinsgruber]

Well, no. That is why I measured and listened. I post that because the poster was claiming he was representing the entire Internet having completely different view of this headphone. So I showed that a top 5 review site for headphones saying completely otherwise. That the difference is very hard to hear with listening.

Their measurements showed why: only 0.9 dB difference in bass in the two. If I ever tried to make a case about a headphone response down to 0.9 dB, you can take me out back and shoot me! Even speaker measurements are allowed to differ by far more.

As to arguing anyway, you are welcome to do so. Just don't drag me into it and make it a fight to death. I have ton of other reviews to get out than dealing with such a fixation. And others come to review threads to discuss something else than you proving you are right across a hundred posts.

I am not arguing, Amir, you are a nice guy...as learnt from our private communication.

But if I look at the whole body of evidence since 2003 (HD 650 release), a lot of people must have been wrong...and wrong exactly the same way...which is very difficult to achieve. Anyway, if you are right, then I rightly did not order the HD6XX (drop version of HD 650), considering I already have the HD 600. Saved me money !

But one thing I can say: I tested the HD 600 with different pads, two really fancy pairs from Dekoni and one from Yaxi...and they altered the sound completely...and not to the better, sadly.

 

[amirm]

But if I look at the whole body of evidence since 2003 (HD 650 release), a lot of people must have been wrong...and wrong exactly the same way...which is very difficult to achieve.

I don't know that they are right or wrong. I lack the data they haver to know (e.g. multiple units of each model). What I know is that I am NOT setup to produce precision data about headphones to answer such conflicts. I need to get readers to understand that the nature of headphone testing is inexact. Others may have solve this problem in which case, folks are welcome to use their conclusions than mine.

Importantly, in the context of Equalization, all of this is moot anyway. So instead of 6 dB boost, you use 5 dB boost. That's all.

My goal here is to distinguish from so many wildly different headphones. Splitting the hair on two so similar headphones is not what I care about or certainly stress over. Clearly others feel different and so should seek out other sources of information.

 

[AdamG]

I get the last word . Consider this thread closed to any further comment, discussion or otherwise about comparing this tested HD-600 to a HD-650. If you want to discuss this further, you are free and invited to create a new thread. Let’s keep the remaining conversation in here about the unit/model tested. Please and thank you.

 

[spigot]

I am not arguing, Amir, you are a nice guy...as learnt from our private communication.

But if I look at the whole body of evidence since 2003 (HD 650 release), a lot of people must have been wrong...and wrong exactly the same way...which is very difficult to achieve. Anyway, if you are right, then I rightly did not order the HD6XX (drop version of HD 650), considering I already have the HD 600. Saved me money !

But one thing I can say: I tested the HD 600 with different pads, two really fancy pairs from Dekoni and one from Yaxi...and they altered the sound completely...and not to the better, sadly.

People are wrong in exactly the same way regarding interconnects and speaker cables thousands of times for hundreds of different products over multiple decades. Not that difficult to achieve. In this case I just think these are similar headphones that can be indistinguishable because of a few subtle variables. But if your credibility is tied to following the herd then these circumstances can never be acknowledged. After all, who wants to be labelled an unsophisticated listener.

 

[bracko]

but surely they sound better when you plug them in your best amp vs your worst one?
for example if I use them with an old iPod or onboard sound from a laptop - they will sound fine, but with a JDSLabs Atom they sound better. so the source still matters.

From an "old iPod", which I actually happen to have, HD600 would sound lower and will never be able to reach the same sound levels as when driven from a dedicated amp or from a CD-player's headphone output. Still, I think that the sound quality, when level matched, would be comparable. Let's not confuse sound quality with sound level.

 

[Seta Seta Pop]

We are crazy

 

[KeithPhantom]

Just found this, I didn’t expect the HD 600 being so high in Harman-based rankings: https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/AutoEq/blob/master/results/RANKING.md.
Interesting, I’ll even do some experimentation with EQ to find out more….

 

[Chagall]

Just found this, I didn’t expect the HD 600 being so high in Harman-based rankings: https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/AutoEq/blob/master/results/RANKING.md.
Interesting, I’ll even do some experimentation with EQ to find out more….

Maybe after adding +8 dB low shelf Great headphones nonetheless!

Edit: Oh, this is after EQ...don't mind me.