Rythmik Sub Plate Amps: Are Discrete Op-amp and/or other Upgrades Sensible?

[dped90]

As you likely know, these are among the best rated yet affordable subs.
https://www.rythmikaudio.com/reviews.html

https://www.rythmikaudio.com/technology.html

But some claim to hear coloration which presumably even designer Brian Ding suspects could be due to use of less than ideal op-amps in the plate amps. https://www.rythmikaudio.com/faq.html

Assuming the plate amp's op-amps are pluggable and not soldered (???), which swappable discrete op-amps might even be better alternatives than this?

Or which of these?

OTOH, Zockopa commented here

, that upgrading the passive components functioning directly with the op-amp (film caps with dielectrics yielding lower DA and distortion) will likely deliver more cost-effective performance.

Therefore, are at least the modest, if not brisk sales of this "snake oil" by at least the above three brands driven by placebo satisfaction-rather than vastly less measurable noise?

Otherwise, what else could account for any user claims for perceived larger sound stage, better imaging, more definable midrange and wider flatter frequency response?

And even Brian Ding says here that except for bass heavy dance music, flat response down to 14 Hz (certainly 28Hz) is quite noticeable,
as it pertains to recorded event ambiance and the size and proportionality of sound stage. https://www.rythmikaudio.com/faq.html#14hz

But then the task at hand is how best to upgrade the circuitry of the chosen plate amp?
https://www.rythmikaudio.com/amplifiers.html

 

[HarmonicTHD]

As you likely know, these are among the best rated yet affordable subs.
https://www.rythmikaudio.com/reviews.html

https://www.rythmikaudio.com/technology.html

But some claim to hear coloration which presumably even designer Brian Ding suspects could be due to use of less than ideal op-amps in the plate amps. https://www.rythmikaudio.com/faq.html

Assuming the plate amp's op-amps are pluggable and not soldered (???), which swappable discrete op-amps might even be better alternatives than this?

Or which of these?

OTOH, Zockopa commented here

, that upgrading the passive components functioning directly with the op-amp (film caps with dielectrics yielding lower DA and distortion) will likely deliver more cost-effective performance.

Therefore, are at least the modest, if not brisk sales of this "snake oil" by at least the above three brands driven by placebo satisfaction-rather than vastly less measurable noise?

Otherwise, what else could account for any user claims for perceived larger sound stage, better imaging, more definable midrange and wider flatter frequency response?

And even Brian Ding says here that except for bass heavy dance music, flat response down to 14 Hz (certainly 28Hz) is quite noticeable,
as it pertains to recorded event ambiance and the size and proportionality of sound stage. https://www.rythmikaudio.com/faq.html#14hz

But then the task at hand is how best to upgrade the circuitry of the chosen plate amp?
https://www.rythmikaudio.com/amplifiers.html

There is a whole thread on OP amps rolling.

Unless you know what you are doing and are able to identify and measure what is wrong in the first place there is a very big chance it is not improving anything or making it even worse.

If it is the case in your particular case by chance, I don’t know.

Post in thread 'Replace OP amps. Completely pointless, or not?'
https://audiosciencereview.com/foru...ompletely-pointless-or-not.27058/post-1497905

 

[alex-z]

Every single time someone thinks about swapping op-amps, they inevitably find themselves with zero audible improvement. It is borderline crazy to think that you could hear op-amp differences through the room modes effects, decay time of your room, non-linearity of the driver suspension, etc. There is so much low hanging fruit when it comes to bass quality.

The bass region is one where our ears are least sensitive to distortion and noise. So even if the stock op-amps were terrible, and an upgrade managed a 20 or 30dB SINAD improvement, it would be tough to call that audible.

 

[egellings]

If you need higher voltage swing or more current output, then a discrete op amp makes sense. Otherwise, the jellybean will outperform the discrete version in every other parameter, what with laser functionally trimmed resistors and stupid amounts of open loop gain useable for corrective feedback not available in a discrete version.

 

[dped90]

Every single time someone thinks about swapping op-amps, they inevitably find themselves with zero audible improvement. It is borderline crazy to think that you could hear op-amp differences through the room modes effects, decay time of your room, non-linearity of the driver suspension, etc. There is so much low hanging fruit when it comes to bass quality.

The bass region is one where our ears are least sensitive to distortion and noise. So even if the stock op-amps were terrible, and an upgrade managed a 20 or 30dB SINAD improvement, it would be tough to call that audible.

If you need higher voltage swing or more current output, then a discrete op amp makes sense. Otherwise, the jellybean will outperform the discrete version in every other parameter, what with laser functionally trimmed resistors and stupid amounts of open loop gain useable for corrective feedback not available in a discrete version.

LOL, sort of at myself, though I was hoping for replies like yours, which might invite further inquiry. FWIW, I started my investigation by posting at this forum, long known for lots of Q & A about Rythmik sealed subs,
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=185129.new;topicseen#new and the OB versions, using the same amps and drivers sold here https://gr-research.com/sub-series/

But as you can see, I was then redirected (??) here
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.p...1n0499g1jr&topic=145931.msg1566110#msg1566110 ,
where someone who seemed to know his stuff but of dubious ("restricted"?) background proffered those plate amp upgrades.
No thanks, Folsom.

Granted, human hearing sensitivity to low frequencies declines quite rapidly. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal-loudness_contour And using EQ to boost it closer to bandwidths which are perceived as louder by our ears would likewise make the sub's plate amps's noise and distortion that much more noticeable. Again, that was part of my logic for pursuing these op-amp/passive parts upgrades.

Furthermore, regarding any perceived sonic improvement by swapping out common op-amp chips for those with much measurably lower noise and distortion specs-, low DA and distortion film caps and metal film resistors, my assumption was that such improvements might have been audible once my room (20 ft x 15; 11 ft to 8 ft vaulted ceiling) was acoustically and then electronically corrected using DIRAC Live 3.

Finally, as per Geddes, Toole and Welti prescriptions, using 3 (to 4) 12" (sealed) subs would further smooth out room modes, thereby making any significantly measurable improvements from the circuit upgrades that much more noticeable. Thus, if those changes were correctly implemented would it justify making such circuit upgrades to Rythmik plate amps?