RME ADI-2/4 Pro SE - RIAA mode measurements

[pkane]

I still want the highest end parts
It's audiophilia after all
You don't search for the "The nice DAC with the somewhat OK chip."
You search for the the best DAC with the latest and best chip , hopefully at the same price .
And there are DACs that cost less and have better chips than the RME so it can be done.

If you want bling over proper engineering and performance, there are plenty of choices in the audiophile market. Why pick on a pro company that doesn’t cater to those with more money than sense?

 

[unpluggged]

I still want the highest end parts

BTW, AFAIR, you are still trying to make a choice between various studio monitors, the vast majority of which are DSP-based. Why don't you demand they use the flagship DAC chips then? I bet they use even lower-range DACs, if not just some FDA chip-amps. For instance, the HEDD Type 07 MK2 at first used the AK4454 DAC, which later had been replaced with ES9080Q. And these are better than the majority of DACs known to be used in studio monitors.

 

[Pearljam5000]

BTW, AFAIR, you are still trying to make a choice between various studio monitors, the vast majority of which are DSP-based. Why don't you demand they use the flagship DAC chips then? I bet they use even lower-range DACs, if not just some FDA chip-amps. For instance, the HEDD Type 07 MK2 at first used the AK4454 DAC, which later had been replaced with ES9080Q. And these are better than the majority of DACs known to be used in studio monitors.

Unfortunately they don't care what I demand

 

[LTig]

I still want the highest end parts

But you are not willing to pay the highest price.

It's audiophilia after all

RME is a pro company and targets the pro market.

You don't search for the "The nice DAC with the somewhat OK chip."
You search for the the best DAC with the latest and best chip , hopefully at the same price .
And there are DACs that cost less and have better chips than the RME so it can be done.

Those DACs miss most of the features RME DACs offer. Those features don't come for free.

 

[Pearljam5000]

But you are not willing to pay the highest price.

RME is a pro company and targets the pro market.

Those DACs miss most of the features RME DACs offer. Those features don't come for free.

The pros want and need the best parts even more than audiophiles

 

[Chester]

RME is a pro company and targets the pro market.

Maybe they started that way but I would guess they sell less products to the pro market than they do to the audiophile market these days.

 

[unpluggged]

Maybe they started that way but I would guess they sell less products to the pro market than they do to the audiophile market these days.

They sell to distributors, not to end users. And they don't differentiate between markets.

The pros want and need the best parts even more than audiophiles

The pros don't care about parts. They care about products and their suitability to the task. And they care about reliability, support and relevant features more than about a couple of inaudible decibels of THD.

 

[Pearljam5000]

They sell to distributors, not to end users. And they don't differentiate between markets.

But they probably know how many % of their clients are audiophiles and how many are pros

 

[unpluggged]

But they probably know how many % of their clients are audiophiles and how many are pros

And how many of them would say, "I won't buy an RME only because it has the wrong DAC chip"?

 

[Pearljam5000]

And how many of them would say, "I won't buy an RME only because it has the wrong DAC chip"?

They'd just buy a different DAC

 

[pkane]

And how many of them would say, "I won't buy an RME only because it has the wrong DAC chip"?

One or two of these so far. Probably not worth asking RME to re-engineer their flagship model for the two customers who just want more expensive parts for no apparent reason other than the higher price.

 

[DrCWO]

For what benefit ?
A few dBs of noise that you can't hear anyway.
(I measure more than 120dB SINAD in a mono DAC+ADC loopback with the ADI-2/4.
This is the sum of the DAC and ADC !
This is well above any competitive device.
Does anybody need more ?)

I run the ADI-2/4 with NCx500 amps without Buffer
Such a fantastic resolution and microdetail with absolutely no hiss even with the ear close to the speaker.
SINAD of the amp is 113dB so a bit blow the DAC and still nearly the best you can get.
As you said: Does anybody need more?

 

[Pearljam5000]

I run the ADI-2/4 with NCx500 amps without Buffer
Such a fantastic resolution and microdetail with absolutely no hiss even with the ear close to the speaker.
SINAD of the amp is 113dB so a bit blow the DAC and still nearly the best you can get.
As you said: Does anybody need more?

If no one needs it
Why are they still making better chips ?

 

[Chester]

They sell to distributors, not to end users. And they don't differentiate between markets.

So do Chord and many other audiophile manufacturers. It’s not only pro companies that do that.

Their DAC only model plus the SE with vinyl digitising capabilities are clearly marketed towards audiophiles. And why shouldn’t they. Benchmark have also done the same thing. Makes perfect business sense to me and funds R&D for the next products (for the Pros or otherwise).

 

[DrCWO]

If no one needs it
Why are they still making better chips ?

I also have no idea why I should need a sample rate of 384kHz PCM. Nobody is able to hear the 192kHz they can provide.

My only explanation is that there are people out there who demand more and are willing to pay for it, whether it makes sense or not
The whole game is fueled by those who market the “more” because otherwise they wouldn’t know how to continue running their business. It's probably precisely for this reason that helium-cooled DACs will soon be available that will have 200dB SINAD. I bet they also will find their customers

It can be said that with the best today's DACs and amplifiers, the limit of perception has finally been reached. Transparency is no longer fiction but reality, at least when it comes to electronics.

Now that we know what the world actually looks like through transparent glasses, it might be time to put on rose, blue or yellow glasses every now and then and talk about the different aesthetics that this creates. But I think we already do that with turntables and tube amplifiers

 

[pkane]

If no one needs it
Why are they still making more expensive chips ?

Fixed it for you. Could it be because they need to keep bringing in revenue?

 

[unpluggged]

So do Chord and many other audiophile manufacturers. It’s not only pro companies that do that.

Their DAC only model plus the SE with vinyl digitising capabilities are clearly marketed towards audiophiles. And why shouldn’t they. Benchmark have also done the same thing. Makes perfect business sense to me and funds R&D for the next products (for the Pros or otherwise).

As we have found out here, "audiophiles" would dismiss RME products because of their converters not being high-end enough

The rest of their product lineup, including the ADI-2 Pro with "entry-level" AK4493 DAC chips, generates orders of magnitude more revenue that these two niche models, despite using even cheaper converters. Their UCX II and UFX III are selling like hot pancakes and often back-ordered. So recording folks are still their main target audience, and hopefully will remain such for the foreseeable future.

As I had said before, RME does not play such games. If someone believes that fancier chips automatically bring better sound, they are free to spend their money as they wish. But I bet no one is able to reliably distinguish the Apple dongle from better-performing DACs in a controlled and level-matched test, so I personally would focus on value the finished product brings as a whole.

 

[Sokel]

I want the old AKM's everything but by today's standards
The new ones are like sabre

 

[Pearljam5000]

If SMSL uses a lot of different chips and build the DACs around them I'm sure RME can do it too

 

[pkane]

If SMSL uses a lot of different chips and build the DACs around them I'm sure RME can do it too
View attachment 341752

Armchair engineering is fun to do, especially when you're not an engineer, but it’s far removed from the real world designing, building, and selling a product. You've yet to provide any rational reason for why RME should want to use a more expensive DAC chip.