Review of $4000 Revel 126be vs. $350 Wharefdale.

[Rockdog]

I couldn't resist.. I own a tower version of the Revel be line of which I'm continously happy with, but maybe I could have saved lots of money, bought a cheap speaker of a 10th the price, and with a few mods, brought it right up to the Revel level, or better.

I'm not sure I'd want my "$20" Revel crossover tweaked for different tweeter response though. Clarity caps and removing sand cast resistors seems to be the road to nirvana, regardless of drivers. The measurement don't lie, right? Hmm..

 

[amirm]

We had this posted in another thread. Personally I think the bookshelf Be line is priced pretty high. That aside, bass performance is super important and Danny mentioning that in passing that the Revel is better is not right. Research shows bass quality accounts for 30% of overall fidelity.

As for tweeter level change, until I test it I can't say if that is merited or not.

 

[dfuller]

There's absolutely nothing wrong with sandcast resistors. They're all wirewounds, which means they're quite precise and low noise. The inductance may be marginally higher but it's sure as hell not an audible change. Clarity caps... Nah, total nonsense.

 

[Rockdog]

We had this posted in another thread.

Oops, thanks. Driver quality, distortion vs. output, woofer excursion, cabinet size, etc. count for something for sure.. I bought the 228Be's used on a great price, but I'd agree the bookshelves are pricey. Heck, the tower line is pricey but the build quality and performance are better than many at a higher price point. Find a bit of a deal and they're a solid value. I blame this site for buying them, and glad I did!

 

[mac]

The legendary Mr. Richie has spoken.

 

[77SunsetStrip]

Interesting comparison. For $4000 Revel gives you super nice looking cabinet, good drivers, and a crossover with costlier - better quality parts. Wait a minute, thought parts is parts. Capacitors all sound the same, iron core inductors are just fine. At least Revel didn't gouge customers with costlier resistors. Guess the price would have been $5000 for metal film resistors.

Who is the real offender here taking advantage of buyer ignorance? If GR Research selling better quality crossover components for a couple hundred bucks is snake oil, Revel is selling snake oil on steroids.

 

[DSJR]

Don't forget the tube sockets in prime position in the picture...

 

[preload]

Very interesting! When I owned a pair of m126be's, I thought they sounded a little rolled off myself. This guy modified the 126be crossover to bring up the tweeter level.

Also I'm not an expert on deciphering nonverbal communication but I couldn't help but notice that this person tended to glance down a bit more, talked a bit faster, and just seemed a little less confident when he started describing what he thought the purported audible benefits of his mods would have. Suspicious.

 

[dfuller]

Interesting comparison. For $4000 Revel gives you super nice looking cabinet, good drivers, and a crossover with costlier - better quality parts. Wait a minute, thought parts is parts. Capacitors all sound the same, iron core inductors are just fine. At least Revel didn't gouge customers with costlier resistors. Guess the price would have been $5000 for metal film resistors.

Who is the real offender here taking advantage of buyer ignorance? If GR Research selling better quality crossover components for a couple hundred bucks is snake oil, Revel is selling snake oil on steroids.

within reason parts are parts. Iron core vs air core inductors have some tradeoffs between them, namely size and dc resistance vs inductance vs distortion from the core itself. Air cores are better w/r/t distortion, but their size is a result of their need for a larger size wire gauge for a given inductance because they need more turns than an iron core type, so to keep DCR minimal... Yeah this stuff gets complicated. Whether or not those changes are audible I couldn't tell you; I'd wager this one as a "possibly audible". Would like to see some testing by someone who is more familiar with this.

But, realistically, caps are caps, and resistors are resistors.

 

[Dennis Murphy]

within reason parts are parts. Iron core vs air core inductors have some tradeoffs between them, namely size and dc resistance vs inductance vs distortion from the core itself. Air cores are better w/r/t distortion, but their size is a result of their need for a larger size wire gauge for a given inductance because they need more turns than an iron core type, so to keep DCR minimal... Yeah this stuff gets complicated. Whether or not those changes are audible I couldn't tell you; I'd wager this one as a "possibly audible". Would like to see some testing by someone who is more familiar with this.

But, realistically, caps are caps, and resistors are resistors.

I think that about says it. I source my crossover boards from the same company as Revel and use the same line of parts, so I have a pretty good idea of the cost and quality. I don't think Revel is using the "iron core" inductor just to save a few dollars. Those inductors are actually steel laminate and have very acceptable saturation properties, plus the advantage of lower dcr and smaller size. I use them on the woofer sections of all my speakers, and if there's any difference in the sound of those vs. air core, I sure have never heard it. If there were, I would use air core in a heart beat.

 

[Rockdog]

Interesting comparison. For $4000 Revel gives you super nice looking cabinet, good drivers, and a crossover with costlier - better quality parts. Wait a minute, thought parts is parts. Capacitors all sound the same, iron core inductors are just fine. At least Revel didn't gouge customers with costlier resistors. Guess the price would have been $5000 for metal film resistors.

Who is the real offender here taking advantage of buyer ignorance? If GR Research selling better quality crossover components for a couple hundred bucks is snake oil, Revel is selling snake oil on steroids.

Yes, I'm a Revel owner so inherently biased to protect my purchasing decision. I get that, but please...

If you think the two speakers are comparable in performance, I've got land for sale. Everything is missing here in evaluation except a FR plot of which we have no other controls to evaluate. I have not seen him describe his test equipment or conditions, and every other parameter except impedance is missing.

With that said, of course this illustrates diminishing returns, of which high end audio suffers greatly Second, yes I'd say 4k is a steep price but if you're paying retail, I've also got land for sale. Third, I have little doubt the Revel blows the doors off the little Wharfy, of which I commend for great value. Good company with high price to performance ratio. Kudos.

The Revel, in comparison, will excell in dynamics, detail from superior drivers, room response from wide even dispersion, imaging from same, and overall kick assedness for it's size.

I'd also bet GRs modifications might change FR a bit, but would have no discernable change in SQ. But hey, ASR has taken hold of my audio brain. Maybe the Wharfy is as good as any 4k$ speaker out there.. got to hand it to Danny for stirring that pot. I have no doubt the little speaker is worth every penny of it's asking price. I also have no doubt the Revel is a better speaker in every way.

 

[77SunsetStrip]

Rockdog, comparable performance is it the ear of the listener, and pocket, when evaluating between a 10X price difference. Fully onboard with each individual spending as much or as little as they choose. Danny R. was just another DIY guy on Youtube for me, until he became a target of many on ASR. EVERYBODY on Youtube should be taken with a grain of salt. The video provides some interesting fodder for thought and reflection for those that can put aside entrenched beliefs.

 

[Sonny1]

Danny getting lots of positive comments on this one. I’m guessing none of the people commenting have heard the Revel speakers or seriously considered purchasing them. I not buy into all of Danny’s hype but at least he’s not selling $3000 power cords or silver USB cords. Thank God for ASR.

 

[beagleman]

Yes, I'm a Revel owner so inherently biased to protect my purchasing decision. I get that, but please...

If you think the two speakers are comparable in performance, I've got land for sale. Everything is missing here in evaluation except a FR plot of which we have no other controls to evaluate. I have not seen him describe his test equipment or conditions, and every other parameter except impedance is missing.

With that said, of course this illustrates diminishing returns, of which high end audio suffers greatly Second, yes I'd say 4k is a steep price but if you're paying retail, I've also got land for sale. Third, I have little doubt the Revel blows the doors off the little Wharfy, of which I commend for great value. Good company with high price to performance ratio. Kudos.

The Revel, in comparison, will excell in dynamics, detail from superior drivers, room response from wide even dispersion, imaging from same, and overall kick assedness for it's size.

I'd also bet GRs modifications might change FR a bit, but would have no discernable change in SQ. But hey, ASR has taken hold of my audio brain. Maybe the Wharfy is as good as any 4k$ speaker out there.. got to hand it to Danny for stirring that pot. I have no doubt the little speaker is worth every penny of it's asking price. I also have no doubt the Revel is a better speaker in every way.

I think you are taking your Revel ownership a bit too seriously

I think for sure the Revel may have a few key things that are better for SURE, but he is mostly saying you can take a relatively cheap speaker and get a good "Bit" of the performance of a much higher priced one.

I own Wharfedale, but not this model, and my 12.1 does seem a great value, within its intended use and purpose etc.

The Revel, this model have NOT heard, but think just looking at a few key measurements, obviously it is not "Worth" 10 times as much, but will still be a better speaker.

Just walking into a room and not knowing which was playing, I doubt there would be a huge difference upon a quick listen. Again I think the Revel ARE A GOOD BIT BETTER, overall, but simply a poor value was his main point. I never defend Danny at all, but I think you are taking it a bit too seriously is all.....Good day!