Review and Measurements of the Topping D70 DAC

[Paulkouhan]

Hello,

When comparing the intermodulation distortion test graph to the Topping D90's one, is it correct to assume the D70 is better when used with the volume control, with the volume lower than -10dB ?

Can you create the graph D70 vs D90 ?
Thanks
Paul

 

[Veri]

When comparing the intermodulation distortion test graph to the Topping D90's one, is is correct to assume the D70 is better when used with the volume control, with the volume lower than -10dB ?

The D90 IMD result is slightly better no? When compared.

 

[Paulkouhan]

At -13dBFS, the D70 is about -105 dB, the D90 is about -102 dB.
I think the slope is a bit different and the D70 is better up to -10dBFS.

 

[raanany]

@amirm you wrote: “We can see why SINAD suffers a bit because once the levels get close to maximum, more distortion sets in than best of the best DACs. If you operate the DAC using its volume control you would avoid this and get all the benefits of the D70.”

This implies that the D70 volume control is equivalent to reducing the media player’s (say, iTunes) volume by the same amount, right? Are all DACs like this? Why? Wouldn’t it be better for the volume of a DAC to apply attenuation to its analog output signal along with the accompanying noise and thus retain the SNR (at least until we hit the noise floor of the attenuator which is presumably much lower than that of the DAC)?

Thanks,
Raanan

 

[raanany]

@amirm you wrote about the multi-tone test: “We have 120 dB separate between intermodulation distortion products and our peak signal which well exceeds our hearing dynamic range.”.

Don’t we have to apply the FFT gain (20log10(NFFT)) to properly measure the height of this “grass”?

 

[sutantoroy]

@amirm based on the intermodulation distortion test, is it true that it will give the lowest distortion if i set the D70 volume to around -13dBFS? I use another preamp (with volume control) driving my amp currently.

 

[Kiko1974]

I wonder how do these D/A's do volume control digitally with DSD.

 

[wtsz]

@amirm based on the intermodulation distortion test, is it true that it will give the lowest distortion if i set the D70 volume to around -13dBFS? I use another preamp (with volume control) driving my amp currently.

It's better on paper.
At -13dBFS, D70 there is a loss of dynamics and transparency.
This is my humble subjective opinion.

 

[Nybto]

So if the unit is set to full output (DAC mode) where would the music signal typically sit on the x scale of the IMD chart (at 0 or spread right across - thus still benefitting from SOTA performance lower down), could someone clarify?

 

[sutantoroy]

It's better on paper.
At -13dBFS, D70 there is a loss of dynamics and transparency.
This is my humble subjective opinion.

Thank you for your opinion, have you compare them to the same dB SPL?

 

[wtsz]

Thank you for your opinion, have you compare them to the same dB SPL?

This is my humble subjective opinion.

I think comparatively dB SPL, however you should take into account the margin of error.
In my opinion the difference is very big.
I recommend Topping D70 as a DAC up to $ 1,000.
RCA output.

 

[Audio Flynn]

So if the unit is set to full output (DAC mode) where would the music signal typically sit on the x scale of the IMD chart (at 0 or spread right across - thus still benefitting from SOTA performance lower down), could someone clarify?

I am curious as well. I use my D70 ion DAC only mode.

 

[gvl]

^^^ Depends on the music, with the loudness wars modern music signal may well be in the region where the distortion rises most of the time, chances are though that it won't matter much as the damage has already been done during mastering. With more dynamic material like classical peaks shooting to 0db can be ralatively rare, so the DAC will play in its sweet zone most of the time, except when reproducing those peaks.

 

[VintageFlanker]

Wouldn’t it be better for the volume of a DAC to apply attenuation to its analog output signal along with the accompanying noise and thus retain the SNR

It would, in theory.

That's why the RME ADI-2 DAC uses analog Ref Levels.

 

[raanany]

It would, in theory.

That's why the RME ADI-2 DAC uses analog Ref Levels.

Thanks. But RME proudly state that they are using digital volume control. Anyway, I’ve since realized (with help from @Schackmannen) that as long as the noise floor is below 0dbSPL digital volume control (pre dac) works great (even better) than analog (post dac) would.

 

[wtsz]

Thanks. But RME proudly state that they are using digital volume control. Anyway, I’ve since realized (with help from @Schackmannen) that as long as the noise floor is below 0dbSPL digital volume control (pre dac) works great (even better) than analog (post dac) would.

Which filter is active in the DAC mode?

 

[MattG]

Based on the discussion about turning the "pure DAC" mode on or off, I am led to believe that volume can be controlled by the hardware in two different ways: (1) digital volume control, done internally by the AKM chip itself, and/or (2) analog volume control, as in the DAC is also effectively a pre-amp?

Or am I not understanding correctly, and the unit actually only has digital in-chip volume control, which can be turned on or off?

 

[gvl]

the unit actually only has digital in-chip volume control, which can be turned on or off?

this

 

[ahmadie]

If you have less bass with D70, try using strawberry player, it solves bass and treble issue and make them more forward, and improved musicality overall !! I prefer it over audirvana and HQ player with this DAC

 

[Veri]

If you have less bass with D70, try using strawberry player, it solves bass and treble issue and make them more forward, and improved musicality overall !! I prefer it over audirvana and HQ player with this DAC

Seems doubtful it could make such changes..