Review and Measurements of New Topping D50s DAC

[mkawa]

Drop is active again for $200.

if you are in the US and clip the coupon on the shenzhen audio listing for it on amazon, it's 237$ flat shipped prime. massdrop holds onto your money for a month and then subjects you to their horrid distribution system...

 

[JimB]

if you are in the US and clip the coupon on the shenzhen audio listing for it on amazon, it's 237$ flat shipped prime. massdrop holds onto your money for a month and then subjects you to their horrid distribution system...

... though, you might have to add tax to that Amazon purchase (I would). You can also get it from APOS (https://apos.store/products/topping-d50s-dac?variant=29093849530442) for $219, shipped (as always, plus appropriate sales tax). Edit: APOS has just confirmed that they will match the DROP price if you request that, with shipping now, and 2 year warranty. They are an authorized TOPPING retailer for the US, so all in all, a better path than DROP. Just click the chat to tell them that is what you want. They even pay return shipping up to 30 days if you decide not to keep it. That just hooked me and I bought it.

 

[maty]

Europe, € 249 + shippig or € 207,50 tax excl. In stock.

https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/dac-...0-ldac-32bit-768khz-dsd512-black-p-14030.html

https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/dac-...-ldac-32bit-768khz-dsd512-silver-p-14046.html

 

[mkawa]

... though, you might have to add tax to that Amazon purchase (I would). You can also get it from APOS (https://apos.store/products/topping-d50s-dac?variant=29093849530442) for $219, shipped (as always, plus appropriate sales tax). Edit: APOS has just confirmed that they will match the DROP price if you request that, with shipping now, and 2 year warranty. They are an authorized TOPPING retailer for the US, so all in all, a better path than DROP. Just click the chat to tell them that is what you want. They even pay return shipping up to 30 days if you decide not to keep it. That just hooked me and I bought it.

woah! thanks for the tip!

 

[AudioJunky]

If you really wanna use the remote, max the volume on the D50s, then set the Atom at the max volume you'll want, and decrease the sound with the remote on the D50s. This way you'll never blow your ears nor speakers.

This is how I had it initially but the atom was set really low and affected the sound quality. Typical of potentiometers at low volume/high resistance. I'm going to try an attenuator between the d50s and atom which should sound better than either alternative. The other option is to replace the pot on the atom which I don't want to do.

 

[daftcombo]

This is how I had it initially but the atom was set really low and affected the sound quality. Typical of potentiometers at low volume/high resistance. I'm going to try an attenuator between the d50s and atom which should sound better than either alternative. The other option is to replace the pot on the atom which I don't want to do.

Then set the D50s volume around 50 so that you can have the Atom at around 11 o'clock.
An attenuator will harm the sound quality I'm afraid.

 

[AudioJunky]

Then set the D50s volume around 50 so that you can have the Atom at around 11 o'clock.
An attenuator will harm the sound quality I'm afraid.

I set the atom at 3pm with the d50s at -25db currently for testing.

I've read that what ends up happening with digital volume control, is you're lowering the signal while keeping the noise floor the same. So in effect lowering the SNR and Sinad. With analog you have a large signal and when attenuating you're also attenuating any noise, though the attenuating can possibly introduce its own noise if it's low quality (as with anything of low quality).

 

[GeorgeWalk]

... though, you might have to add tax to that Amazon purchase (I would). You can also get it from APOS (https://apos.store/products/topping-d50s-dac?variant=29093849530442) for $219, shipped (as always, plus appropriate sales tax). Edit: APOS has just confirmed that they will match the DROP price if you request that, with shipping now, and 2 year warranty. They are an authorized TOPPING retailer for the US, so all in all, a better path than DROP. Just click the chat to tell them that is what you want. They even pay return shipping up to 30 days if you decide not to keep it. That just hooked me and I bought it.

I bought my D50s on Apos.com from Apos, also. https://apos.store/collections/dac-digital-to-analog-converter/products/topping-d50s-dac

 

[daftcombo]

I set the atom at 3pm with the d50s at -25db currently for testing.

I've read that what ends up happening with digital volume control, is you're lowering the signal while keeping the noise floor the same. So in effect lowering the SNR and Sinad. With analog you have a large signal and when attenuating you're also attenuating any noise, though the attenuating can possibly introduce its own noise if it's low quality (as with anything of low quality).

Yes but if you don't HEAR noise, then there is no noise. Whereas with distortion, it can be there but you don't hear it at first or on some material.

 

[AudioJunky]

Yes but if you don't HEAR noise, then there is no noise. Whereas with distortion, it can be there but you don't hear it at first or on some material.

You still get a reduction of dynamic range with digital attenuation. I think the main problem is I have too much gain in my setup. If I had difficult headphones to drive or a weaker power amp I could use less attenuation and not have such a problem.

I either need a different preamp/volume control or use a fixed level of attenuation before the preamp. Instead of spending $1800 on a high quality stepped attenuator (https://www.hificollective.co.uk/ca...-stepped-stereo-charcroft-seiden-p-10088.html) I will build a fixed attenuator after determining what db level is appropriate for my setup.

Here's an example of one someone built, that's really well done, albeit expensive. https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/thre...a-delos-cartridge.341197/page-4#post-10216354

 

[Julf]

You still get a reduction of dynamic range with digital attenuation.

You always get a reduction of dynamic range with any sort of attenuation if the noise floor isn't dominated by things before the attenuator.

 

[AudioJunky]

You always get a reduction of dynamic range with any sort of attenuation if the noise floor isn't dominated by things before the attenuator.

If requiring a "moderate" amount of attenuation would a reduction in noise be a higher priority vs alternate volume controls (which can introduct their own noise)? If the more attenuation needed, the lower the dynamic range (based on noise floor) then could a linear psu actually make a difference?

I'd imagine there's a threshold low enough where anything but severe attenuation would affect the dynamic range.

Thanks!

 

[Julf]

If requiring a "moderate" amount of attenuation would a reduction in noise be a higher priority vs alternate volume controls (which can introduct their own noise)?

I would not worry about moderate amounts of attenuation.

If the more attenuation needed, the lower the dynamic range (based on noise floor) then could a linear psu actually make a difference?

Maybe, but it could also make it worse. Depends on the design of the DAC. Linear power supplies are not a great match with digital circuits.

 

[fieldcar]

... though, you might have to add tax to that Amazon purchase (I would). You can also get it from APOS (https://apos.store/products/topping-d50s-dac?variant=29093849530442) for $219, shipped (as always, plus appropriate sales tax). Edit: APOS has just confirmed that they will match the DROP price if you request that, with shipping now, and 2 year warranty. They are an authorized TOPPING retailer for the US, so all in all, a better path than DROP. Just click the chat to tell them that is what you want. They even pay return shipping up to 30 days if you decide not to keep it. That just hooked me and I bought it.

Thanks for the info! I just cancelled my drop.com order which was going to ship at the end of October and went with APOS. They price matched drop, and I should get it sometime next week and they have actual support + warranty! I feel so much better now.

 

[ElNino]

I've read that what ends up happening with digital volume control, is you're lowering the signal while keeping the noise floor the same. So in effect lowering the SNR and Sinad. With analog you have a large signal and when attenuating you're also attenuating any noise, though the attenuating can possibly introduce its own noise if it's low quality (as with anything of low quality).

This is accurate.

Around 20dB is the transition zone for me. If I need less than 20dB attenuation, I usually go digital; if >20dB, it's easy enough to wire up a fixed attenuator. I had one system where I needed 45dB of attenuation, and it was worth the short time it takes to wire it up versus using that much digital attenuation. If you need less than 30dB of attenuation, there's a handy cheatsheet to the resistor values to use here: https://www.goldpt.com/preattenuation.html Just put them on the end of a cable right before your amplifier.

 

[GeorgeWalk]

Thanks for the info! I just cancelled my drop.com order which was going to ship at the end of October and went with APOS. They price matched drop, and I should get it sometime next week and they have actual support + warranty! I feel so much better now.

That's exactly what I did. I was too impatient to what for Drop and cancelled and reordered at APOS. So far, no regrets about anything.

 

[zermak]

@AudioJunky @daftcombo @Julf
Amir reviewed the Schiit Sys (here) which is just a switch (between two inputs) and a (decent Japanese) pot and it impacts THD+N measures.
Probably going all digital is better (it depends on DAC I suppose) and it's what I do.

 

[josiah]

@JimB Thank you for the tip. I pulled the trigger on the Atom/D50s combo. While I enjoyed the sound of my Fiio K5 Pro, the ratings made me think I was getting an inferior sound. I would have over analyzed things, glad I pulled the trigger after seeing you post.

 

[daftcombo]

@AudioJunky @daftcombo @Julf
Amir reviewed the Schiit Sys (here) which is just a switch (between two inputs) and a (decent Japanese) pot and it impacts THD+N measures.
Probably going all digital is better (it depends on DAC I suppose) and it's what I do.

Mostly decrease in signal to noise, which is normal. Not THD. What do you think a passive pre-amp does appart from slowly putting out a signal from the noise as you turn up volume? As long as you don't hear hiss you're ok.

"At full volume Schiit Sys is transparent. As we lower the level on Sys, naturally the measurement noise as a percentage rises leading to the graphs that you see. In other words you lose signal to noise ratio with passive volume controls."

 

[zermak]

@daftcombo
Well at full volume it is normal that it's trasparent indeed; you pratically bypass the pot's resistors (or wathever used in it). I am talking about when you are going to use it for the purpose you bought it, which is lowering the voltage output and it's when you have the noise raising (as you said, I am not an expert, I am just looking at the THD+N graphs fom that review) and for what I see, looking at the measurements (note: it will probably hard or impossible to spot the differences between the two methods, unless the pot is crap, but I am talking about the technical best solution), it is better to use the digital volume control rather than a passive pot.