Revel C205 and C25 Center Channel

[HooStat]

Does anybody have any experience with these? From what I have read, the MTM design can have issues with horizontal dispersion, and comb filtering, making dialog harder to understand. But I know that Revel does a lot of testing on their speakers, so perhaps they have solved this issue to some degree? I am trying to find a good solution that is < 8" tall (preferably 7") to fit under my tv. The good news is that this is pretty much at ear level and will sit on top of the entertainment cabinet, so the main issue is just horizontal dispersion. The C25 and C205 would fit the bill in terms of size.

I have seen the measurements at https://speakerdata2034.blogspot.com/2019/03/spinorama-data-revel-home.html

and it looks like the C25 is actually smoother than the C205?

Any thoughts or opinions would be appreciated.

 

[Cahudson42]

Just in case you might not know, another MTM Harmon engineered Center, the Infinity RC252, is currently on sale direct from Harmon for $179 (vs. Revel $750/$1000):
https://www.harmanaudio.com/loudspeakers/REFERENCE+RC252.html

It is just under 7" in height as well. A Harmon spinorama is also available so you can compare:
https://speakerdata2034.blogspot.com/2019/06/harman-consumer-brands-spinorama-data.html

Might be worth considering. And if you have the ability to EQ it, you should be able to adjust dialog response should you wish.

And while Amir has not reviewed the RC252, reviews of the R162 and RC263 were positive. Based on the R162 review, I picked up a pair for a BR stereo setup and am very happy with them.

 

[Chromatischism]

@HooStat did you end up buying a speaker?

 

[HooStat]

@HooStat did you end up buying a speaker?

No. Every time I get close, we change our minds about what we want to do. It is the middle of the living room in the middle of the house, so the decision is heavily intertwined with the decor of the house.

 

[Tonygeno]

No. Every time I get close, we change our minds about what we want to do. It is the middle of the living room in the middle of the house, so the decision is heavily intertwined with the decor of the house.

Good thing about that is you keep the money in your pocket.

 

[strummr]

I've recently shared my latest exploration step with HT speakers: picked up Infinity R263s and RC263 for the LCR channels - sounds good but as always, thought I can do better, as it seemed to lack dynamics (I'm running 7.2/4.2/4 - been changing subs and height speakers) - so picked up a Revel C205 to see if a readily discernible difference could be noted... nope. For my room ~23x27 treated, the C205 is too small and the smaller drivers lack dynamics; in this case, no better than the RC263. (in the past 5 years, I've changed up the LCR set from Paradigm Reference Studio > ELACs > Martin Logan Motions > Infinity R) I'm still looking for a Revel F208/C208 combo as my next exploration/possible HT endgame. (with maybe an interim test with JBL A190s or JBL 590s to go with the Infinity RC263 to see if that adds a bit more large driver dynamics for the front channels)

 

[BadgerMaster]

No. Every time I get close, we change our minds about what we want to do. It is the middle of the living room in the middle of the house, so the decision is heavily intertwined with the decor of the house.

Hi @HooStat
Any update or further insights?

 

[Chromatischism]

I've recently shared my latest exploration step with HT speakers: picked up Infinity R263s and RC263 for the LCR channels - sounds good but as always, thought I can do better, as it seemed to lack dynamics (I'm running 7.2/4.2/4 - been changing subs and height speakers) - so picked up a Revel C205 to see if a readily discernible difference could be noted... nope. For my room ~23x27 treated, the C205 is too small and the smaller drivers lack dynamics; in this case, no better than the RC263. (in the past 5 years, I've changed up the LCR set from Paradigm Reference Studio > ELACs > Martin Logan Motions > Infinity R) I'm still looking for a Revel F208/C208 combo as my next exploration/possible HT endgame. (with maybe an interim test with JBL A190s or JBL 590s to go with the Infinity RC263 to see if that adds a bit more large driver dynamics for the front channels)

Interesting. Is it possible you just aren't exceeding what those speakers can do at your volume levels?

 

[HooStat]

Hi @HooStat
Any update or further insights?

No updates. We are waiting for a media console to be finished. If I had to pick something today, it would be KEF, either the RC2 or the Q650c.

 

[strummr]

Interesting. Is it possible you just aren't exceeding what those speakers can do at your volume levels?

I'm not listening at high volumes. Overall, the Infinity's sounded 'thin' to me as front speakers - probably decent linearity as I know they measure well, and I've tried experimenting with various sub crossovers settings to help the bass response (exaggerate the response). Every once in awhile if 'high-volume' listening is in order, I use my main stereo system driven by a Purifi amp (Aerial/Sugden/Auralic/Topping/March Audio). I made a point in another thread that I think for the 'dynamics' I'm looking for in HT, I prefer 8" drivers (not 6.5/5.25") on front speakers - mostly confirmed with the purchase of F208s a couple of weeks ago - I still have a few centers, but continuing the use of the RC263, and not the C205, or the ML 50XT. (the HT system is now running: F208s, RC263, the R263s as rear surrounds, Emotivas for side surrounds, ML/ELACs for Atmos speakers, and two Monolith THX 10s up front, and Infinity R12s in the back corners - all being driven by a Marantz SR7013 and Emotiva XPA-3 G2) I'm quite content with how the RC263s are working with the F208s, but will pick up a C208 soon.

 

[Chromatischism]

I'm not listening at high volumes. Overall, the Infinity's sounded 'thin' to me as front speakers - probably decent linearity as I know they measure well, and I've tried experimenting with various sub crossovers settings to help the bass response (exaggerate the response). Every once in awhile if 'high-volume' listening is in order, I use my main stereo system driven by a Purifi amp (Aerial/Sugden/Auralic/Topping/March Audio). I made a point in another thread that I think for the 'dynamics' I'm looking for in HT, I prefer 8" drivers (not 6.5/5.25") on front speakers - mostly confirmed with the purchase of F208s a couple of weeks ago - I still have a few centers, but continuing the use of the RC263, and not the C205, or the ML 50XT. (the HT system is now running: F208s, RC263, the R263s as rear surrounds, Emotivas for side surrounds, ML/ELACs for Atmos speakers, and two Monolith THX 10s up front, and Infinity R12s in the back corners - all being driven by a Marantz SR7013 and Emotiva XPA-3 G2) I'm quite content with how the RC263s are working with the F208s, but will pick up a C208 soon.

Ok, I think what you're missing is a fuller mid and upper bass response. That isn't necessarily tied to driver size; I would say a speaker designer can make choices in how they want to utilize the available hardware and a driver could be used for more bass or it could not. You can get the effect you describe just fine with 6.5" drivers, you just wouldn't expect more than 95 dB SPL out of them. 8" would increase the headroom available to the designer.

I bet EQ would help a lot. Have you tried shelving the treble 1-2 dB and making sure the low end has a slope to it?

 

[strummr]

Ok, I think what you're missing is a fuller mid and upper bass response. That isn't necessarily tied to driver size; I would say a speaker designer can make choices in how they want to utilize the available hardware and a driver could be used for more bass or it could not. You can get the effect you describe just fine with 6.5" drivers, you just wouldn't expect more than 95 dB SPL out of them. 8" would increase the headroom available to the designer.

I bet EQ would help a lot. Have you tried shelving the treble 1-2 dB and making sure the low end has a slope to it?

Yeah, it’s a purely subjective, personal response (been too lazy to finely tune the system, and been relying on Audyssey with the subsequent manual tweaks). I’ve had plenty of towers with multiple smaller drivers (5.25/6.5), starting way back with the Paradigm Monitor 11s which were the first I’ve owned with multiple, smaller drivers (three 6.5")– which I assumed was to keep better linearity/time with smaller drivers; and many were decent for the fuller response you’ve noted. I’ve also most recently listened to KEF R3/R7/R11s… and even with the 6.5” drivers, they are ‘dynamic.’ I have no doubt you can design speakers to be more prominent in the upper-bass/lower-mid levels using smaller drivers, but my personal preference for HT is for a slightly exaggerated lower mid fullness, which seem to work best with speakers with larger drivers – at all volumes. Again, a personal thing… possibly more a placebo effect from past experiences.

The Aerial 10Ts that I use for my main, critical listening system has essentially a single 10” woofer but can go down below 30hz, and delivers (for same sources) what feels like greater low freq responses than my subs. I think with the Infinity’s specifically, it’s the case of the enclosure - the density, or lackthereof, is what seems to be the issue with me… again, possibly subconsciously, but knocking on the enclosures of the Aerials/Revels/or even the HDF of the Monoliths… which feels as solid as granite/marble, then you feel the hollow/thin enclosure of the Infinity… lends significantly to the ‘fullness’ perception from the speaker. Eventually I'll get to the point of being able to EQ the HT system.

Back to the discussion of the C205/C25 – which I have the former, and maybe it’s the 2 way vs 3 way, but sounds ‘thin’ to me compared to the RC263.

 

[DerickHarlin]

I am a huge fan of using MTM center speakers upright for stereo applications because I prefer the visual aesthetics of the taller, slimmer cabinets and symmetrical driver arrangements.

When I discovered ASR and reading some tests I soon figured that Revel M105s would be my next stereo speakers. Then the review of the C25 showed up and after seeing the superb performance in terms of directivity and distortions I thought I would go with an upright pair of C205s which I find even more attractive with its black rubber side applications and the „waving“ frame that surrounds the teeeter and the woofers.
Looking for a measurement of the C205 I found the link in the first post of this thread and I was very disappointed to find out that the C205 has a worse directivity than the C25.

I would Like to hear your take on the reasons for this. When i compare the specs the C205 has a lower crossover frequency (1.7kHz vs 2.1kHz) which should be better for directivity. So is it all about the bigger driver distance of the C205?

 

[Bren Derlin]

Digging up an old thread, as I just took delivery of the C205 speaker. Being that it's on sale, I had to take advantage of this, and finally replace the 18 year old Polk LSiC.

My biggest complaint about the Polk LSiC, ever since listening to the Revel M16 speakers in our Home Theater room, is the dialogue sounds mushy. It totally lacks clarity and texture. Having just bought the M106 speakers, moving those into the M16 space, and the moving M16 upstairs to replace the Polk LSi15, the sound from the Polk center was just intolerable (real world problems).

In comparison to the LSiC, the Revel C205 has clarity, detail and texture in spades. Is it the best ever center? Probably not. But I'm not listening to every center to compare. I already have Revel speakers in my set-up, so I'm staying close to home. I just want it to sound better than the LSi15, which it does... by a LONG shot. It's not even remotely close. ...However, I could see someone suggesting the Revel C205 sounding a bit more thin compared to the LSiC, but only because there was so much unrefined bloat in the LSiC, which made it sound full. And maybe I liked that sound way back in 2003. But now? Man. There was so much detail we were missing in movies. And the whole family was constantly rewinding movies to find out what a character said. Several years ago, we just assumed it was the movie sound quality, and not the speakers.

With the C205, I believe there's plenty of mids and mid-bass tones in there to not actually be a thin sounding speaker. I've heard thin-sounds speakers before, and THIS isn't one of them.

Someone suggested the C205 wouldn't blend well with the M16 speakers, but it actually works. REALLY well. I'm ecstatic with the C205's clarity, detail and refinement. So much so, that even with the 60-day in-home trial period, I'm not returning this speaker. It's just too good, especially for this price. Which is all of $220 more expensive than what I paid for the Polk LSiC back in 2003. I no longer feel like I'm missing out NOT listening movies and TV shows in the basement home theater. Before, I'd start watching something in the living room with the Polk speakers, get frustrated not understanding the dialogue, get up, and start over watching my program/movie in the basement.

C205 for the win. YMMV.

 

[Alice of Old Vincennes]

Old thread. Replaced C263 with C205. I agree with Bren. Just finished watching Widow Clicquot. Dialogue was never an issue with C263. In fact, I had no issues with the Infinity at all until subjected to the Revel. The bass drivers sudden stops coupled with tweeter coherence is sublime. If I could just find a sub that just stops. I think I'll watch the movie again with eyes closed.

 

[rynberg]

If I could just find a sub that just stops.

Rythmik F12, F15, or F18. Search over. Although I can't help but to point out that the "slow" or "overhang" bass thing is mostly due to modal issues/room gain and not subwoofers themselves. There are, of course, some exceptions. In any case, even the Rythmik ported subs (I run an FV18) do not have any "overhang". The sealed models have even less.

 

[Alice of Old Vincennes]

Rythmik F12, F15, or F18. Search over. Although I can't help but to point out that the "slow" or "overhang" bass thing is mostly due to modal issues/room gain and not subwoofers themselves. There are, of course, some exceptions. In any case, even the Rythmik ported subs (I run an FV18) do not have any "overhang". The sealed models have even less.

Not my experience. Must be doing something wrong. I may just buy Revel sub. Likely worth the price.

 

[Chromatischism]

Not my experience. Must be doing something wrong. I may just buy Revel sub. Likely worth the price.

Pretty sure the major subwoofer companies, Rythmik included, run circles around speaker company subs.

 

[rynberg]

Not my experience. Must be doing something wrong. I may just buy Revel sub. Likely worth the price.

If you had a bad experience with a Rythmik sub, I'm sorry but that's 100% user error. Revel subs are a poor value from a performance perspective, unless they are at extreme close-out pricing, but of course they have really nice finishes matching the Performa3 series.