Retro speaker recommendations?

[radix]

Hello,

I'm putting together a vintage McIntosh stack for a casual listening space. Why? I've always wanted it and want to do it while I can. The components are mc2205, c30, mr74, B&O turntable, volumio rpi4 streamer.

I'm looking for speaker recommendations for it. I'd prefer something that kept a bit of the vintage flavor with good performance. The space is a dining room open to kitchen area. Most listening will be around 70-80 SPL at 2m. The space itself is about 10m x 15m with a slanted ceiling 3m-6m (those area all ballpark numbers).

There will be a combination of people standing and sitting for this area, so decent vertical dispersion is a benefit.

In order of retail price with stands, here's what I've been thinking of. I'm open to other suggestions. I don't really like the look of the JBL horns (4309), though I did think about just using the 4305P instead of a preamp/amp... maybe if I didn't want the mac stack look, I'd have done that.

- Dentons (80th)
- Dentons (85th)
- L52 classic
- Lintons 85th
- M106
- R3 meta
- L82

The M106, R3's and L82s are getting pretty expensive for this "play" system, so I guess my budget is in the $2k range. I'm not against open-box, and I can find some L82 closer to the M106 price. Some of those speaker stands are a significant chunk, so maybe I could work around that too. Clearly, the M106 and R3 are not so retro, but their design would work with the system given their super performance.

I will likely add a small sub, like an SVS 3000 micro. I might put a minidsp on it I have laying around, or I might just use the main out for amp and speaker 1 out for sub. The mac preamps of this era actually have a processor in/out that one could put a minidsp on too

Marc

 

[HeadDoc12]

For what it’s worth, JBL just announced a new MKII version of the L82 (also the L100) so you might be able to get a good deal on the discontinued model in the next month or two.

 

[Chrispy]

I'd rather go for different JBLs than the L82, (L100 original or even the updated one, or similar passive monitors from then or now (or active if you can accommodate).

 

[radix]

This does make me think about the KEF R3 non-meta as an option. That's at a good discount nowadays if you can still find them.

I'll see what I can find in L100. Though that might start being too big (wide) for the space.

 

[regan]

Linton 85th looks great with those stands and many people really enjoy their sound (see Erin's review) and prefer them to the R3s.

 

[radix]

Linton 85th looks great with those stands and many people really enjoy their sound (see Erin's review) and prefer them to the R3s.

Yeah, I saw Erin's review. The Linton's are basically the best value, I think. Price is good, sound is good, look matches what I'm going for. It was the first one I thought to get, before going down the "what if" rabbit hole of speakers.

The amp should be arriving in about a week (from audio classics), so I'm running out of time to speadsheet

 

[radix]

I found a pair of L100s (black) b-stock for $2400 and just ordered them from audio classics. They think they were a demo return.

 

[pseudoid]

Congrats,
I was going to suggest LS3/5As or the old new KLHs,... if for nothing but the looks to feng-shui with the rest of your cool gear.
Do we get to see a photo? Soon?

 

[radix]

Soon. The speakers are shipping across country, so it will take a little bit. And I still need to build the case for all the mc gear -- it's kind of just stacked up right now.

 

[radix]

I haven't received the L100s yet, but just got the amp. Here's the MR74, C30, and MC2205 on an Ikea $80 table. I had some Beolab 4500 speakers (which are actually about the same vintage as that gear). These have an external amp wire, so I was able to use them like a Beovox 4500 (I think I got the L and R backwards as the silver side should be on the inside, IIRC). I had thought of just using these instead of getting yet more speakers, but that half-wall is not any good for mounting them and they do need a rear wall to get bass. They are sitting on the L100 stands. I also have a RP4 w/ volumio stuck behind the stack for streaming to AUX. The MC2205 has gain controls, so I'm able to configure it so the preamp volume is about 1/2 way for a nice listening volume.

Anyway, it sounds pretty good. I'll take some REW measurements before I switch out to the L100s.

 

[radix]

And here's the system with the L100s and a B&O turntable I've had since the 90s. I was able to get cables from Sounds Heavenly to go from the B&O DIN to regular RCA phono plugs.

 

[radix]

I finally added a DDRC24 to the stack between the C30 and MC2205. A problem I ran into is the C30 has a very hot output and it is easy to overload the DDRC24. I can only go up to about 50% volume with my source set at 0 dBFS. I had to turn the amp's gain up to 100% (I had the pots set to about 50%, not sure what that means dB-wise). Anyway, throttling the C30 back and bumping up the amp came out OK. I just need to be careful not to crank it too far.

here's the REW measurements. I ended up putting a 25 Hz / 24 dB LR high pass filter on it to remove the very bottom. I think the sound is a little tighter. There's definitely less 3rd harmonic distortion (sorry, I didn't exports those graphs). The final settings are the thick dashed lines. This is after I adjusted the amp trim, applied the HP filter, and did a little EQ on the C30 (boosted 30 Hz and cut 10 k, both just a small turn).

Solid traces: the DIRAC setting with Harmon 4dB target. Small dash: add a 30 Hz HP filter. large dash: Change to 25 Hz and adjust trim.

 

[Henryk]

Looks fantastic; Must sound even better too
Congrats!

 

[radix]

I finally added a DDRC24 to the stack between the C30 and MC2205. A problem I ran into is the C30 has a very hot output and it is easy to overload the DDRC24. I can only go up to about 50% volume with my source set at 0 dBFS. I had to turn the amp's gain up to 100% (I had the pots set to about 50%, not sure what that means dB-wise). Anyway, throttling the C30 back and bumping up the amp came out OK. I just need to be careful not to crank it too far.

So it turns out the C30 has an external process loop. I am pretty sure this is a 2V circuit, whereas the Main out can go up to 10V (8V without much distortion -- see post below where I measured +13 dB ). I'm going to try moving the DDRC24 to the external processor hookup and see if that solves my clipping problems on the DDRC24.

McIntosh C30 preamp measurements

EDIT: The LF/HF Filter button was engaged, which caused the bass and treble rolloff. I'm making new measurements of the multitone and gain/THD vs frequency. I just picked up a 1-owner McIntosh C30 (1985-87). I believe this was their first preamp to use transistor switching instead of relays...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[jwmitchell]

Hello,

I'm putting together a vintage McIntosh stack for a casual listening space. Why? I've always wanted it and want to do it while I can. The components are mc2205, c30, mr74, B&O turntable, volumio rpi4 streamer.

I'm looking for speaker recommendations for it. I'd prefer something that kept a bit of the vintage flavor with good performance. The space is a dining room open to kitchen area. Most listening will be around 70-80 SPL at 2m. The space itself is about 10m x 15m with a slanted ceiling 3m-6m (those area all ballpark numbers).

There will be a combination of people standing and sitting for this area, so decent vertical dispersion is a benefit.

In order of retail price with stands, here's what I've been thinking of. I'm open to other suggestions. I don't really like the look of the JBL horns (4309), though I did think about just using the 4305P instead of a preamp/amp... maybe if I didn't want the mac stack look, I'd have done that.

- Dentons (80th)
- Dentons (85th)
- L52 classic
- Lintons 85th
- M106good also.
- R3 meta
- L82

The M106, R3's and L82s are getting pretty expensive for this "play" system, so I guess my budget is in the $2k range. I'm not against open-box, and I can find some L82 closer to the M106 price. Some of those speaker stands are a significant chunk, so maybe I could work around that too. Clearly, the M106 and R3 are not so retro, but their design would work with the system given their super performance.

I will likely add a small sub, like an SVS 3000 micro. I might put a minidsp on it I have laying around, or I might just use the main out for amp and speaker 1 out for sub. The mac preamps of this era actually have a processor in/out that one could put a minidsp on too

Marc

I am a real proponent of the IMF speakers. Best that you might reasonably find are the TLS80s but TLS50s are good also. Either IMF will have much better bass extension than the speakers you list and will also give better imaging and midrange. Arguably the best British speakers of the 1989s.. Downside is that most are in need of capacitor replacement in crossovers. Caps are available from Falcon in England.

 

[radix]

So it turns out the C30 has an external process loop. I am pretty sure this is a 2V circuit, whereas the Main out can go up to 10V (8V without much distortion -- see post below where I measured +13 dB ). I'm going to try moving the DDRC24 to the external processor hookup and see if that solves my clipping problems on the DDRC24.

I re-wired the DDRC to use the McIntosh external process loop, which is a full-volume pre-out before the volume control, and this fixed the problems I was having with clipping the DDRC due to the hot RCA outputs on the preamp.

 

[jwmitchell]

Congrats,
I was going to suggest LS3/5As or the old new KLHs,... if for nothing but the looks to feng-shui with the rest of your cool gear.
Do we get to see a photo? Soon?

LS3/5As are awesome! I can also highly recommend B&W 805s. As I
wrote before though, I really like the IMF transmission line speakers. I have had IMF TLS80 Mk Is since the early 1980s and still think they are probably the best home speakers ever, with the possible exception of the IMF Reference Standard Monitors (RSPM) which were very limited production. The smaller TLS 50s are also great! The other IMF models are worth considering. The only issue is that they will likely need cap updates in the crossovers but Falcon in the UK offers cap kits. I have no direct experience with the later TDL speakers but I understand they are great. BTW, if you want LS3/5As, the Falcon versions in current production are the equal of the old Rogers 16 Ohm speakers (of which I have a pair).

 

[jwmitchell]

One more comment on your soeakers. The LS3/5A should not be dism because of its size. They are not party speakers but for normal listening levels they are quite competent and great sounding. For modern designs with similar sensibilities to the speakers that I recommended, the B&W s are great. I especially recommend the 805A or Nautilus ! The 805s are more affordable and can be driven well by your Mac electronics.

 

[jwmitchell]

I am envious of your McIntosh stack. I would love that. In fact, though, I now listen almost exclusively through headphones because my wife likes to keep CNN on. Thus, my usual electronics are encompassed by a RME ADI 2 DAC FS, which I love or a Chird Mojo which the RMEmostly relaxed but which I use for a portable FAC/amp. On the rare times that I use speakers I usually drive them with a Yamaha receiveror a vintage Onkyo that I inherited. I have an Audio Research SP3A and prototype Dynaco 150W solid state amp but the Yamaha is more convenient. In those cases I use the RME or a Chord Mojo as the DAC. I have vinyl as well with Linn Sondek LP12 TT but the undeniable alure of streaming virtually anything easily makes me lean toward digital for the most part.

 

[radix]

I am envious of your McIntosh stack. I would love that. In fact, though, I now listen almost exclusively through headphones because my wife likes to keep CNN on. Thus, my usual electronics are encompassed by a RME ADI 2 DAC FS, which I love or a Chird Mojo which the RMEmostly relaxed but which I use for a portable FAC/amp. On the rare times that I use speakers I usually drive them with a Yamaha receiveror a vintage Onkyo that I inherited. I have an Audio Research SP3A and prototype Dynaco 150W solid state amp but the Yamaha is more convenient. In those cases I use the RME or a Chord Mojo as the DAC. I have vinyl as well with Linn Sondek LP12 TT but the undeniable alure of streaming virtually anything easily makes me lean toward digital for the most part.

Thank you. I actually have not tried the HP out of the mac. I think I actually have 2x HP from the preamp and 1x HP from the amp! In my office, I have the same RME DAC and love the HP amp on it, and the EQ settings that I use for my open and closed cans. I have a RPi4 + volumio on the McIntosh, and also in the living room on my main system. This lets me use multiroom, which works pretty well with Volumio 3.