Recommendation request thread

[Phoney]

What's the difference between LCD-X, LCD-2 and LCD-2C if I EQ them to the same target? Soundstage, imaging or comfort? Or will they just become pretty much the same headphone?

 

[Robbo99999]

What's the difference between LCD-X, LCD-2 and LCD-2C if I EQ them to the same target? Soundstage, imaging or comfort? Or will they just become pretty much the same headphone?

I couldn't find all the frequency response in Oratory's list for the LCD-2C, but these are them for the LCD-X and LCD-2:

Audeze LCD-X (2021 revision).pdf

Shared with Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

Audeze LCD-2.pdf

Shared with Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

They both look like reasonably smooth frequency responses to EQ, so not problematical in that regard, and they both have pretty much the same stock bass extension, so purely from a frequency response point of view they're on an equal footing after EQ. You'd have to look into factors such as distortion measurements which you'd extrapolate after EQ, ie if you have to boost an area of the frequency response by +10dB then this might take you for instance from the 94dB distortion measurement to the 104dB distortion measurement at that point. You'd also want to take into account the physical design of the headphones, are they all broadly the same earcup shape and are the pads angled or not - angled pads might improve the soundstage. And in terms of soundstage you'd probably have to research user reports/reviews to guage a feel for how good the soundstage is for that headphone - if they're all the same gross physical design like for instance if you were to compare HD600 / HD650 / HD6XX, those 3 are essentially the same cups & headbands, same dimensions, same pads, essentially the same headphone apart from cosmetic and driver differences.....so these headphones would all have the same soundstage when EQ'd to the same curve........so you'd be taking these kind of aspects into account. You'd want to research if there are common faults with the models of headphone that you're considering, and look for reviews re comfort/fitment aspect. The last important point I want to make, see if you kind find any information about unit to unit variation for the headphone manufacturer & model that you're interested in buying - ideally you want a headphone that has low unit to unit variation so that way when you apply EQ's from people like Oratory then you can be more sure that the final frequency response you end up with will be close to the intended target - this can have a massive influence on the experience/sound if you're buying a headphone that has high unit to unit variation.

 

[Phoney]

Thanks! Yeah judging by all of that they look to be pretty much the same after EQ.. I'm just curious if there's anything that could make it worth to pay a bit extra for the LCD-X or the LCD-2 Fazor.. I believe @Jimbob54 had both? Anyone else who has any experience on this matter?

 

[Justin Ayers]

Country:
US

Budget:
<$600

Form factor:
not IEM (my left ear doesn't seem to be able to hold earplugs nor the IEMs I've tried well at all)

Use case:
mainly classical digital recordings with lossless compression

Source information:
will adapt as necessary to the headphones; currently have a cheap Behringer firewire DAC + headphone amp and two Macbook Pro laptops. Can't afford an expensive amp, though. $250 max.

Things that are important to you:
light weight
not too much clamping pressure
detail without exaggerated treble (but also not too rolled off below 16K)
adequate bass response at lower volume levels
accurate midrange

Your preferred sound signature/other headphones you've tried and liked/disliked:
no hiss please, even at low volume
good sound at lower volume levels

Anything else you feel might be relevant:
will only buy a product made in a nation that has legal same-sex marriage (preferably with as many parts sourced from such nations)

cannot hear above 16K

would be convenient to have a headphone that is compatible with Macs (which have gain that's too high for my Sony headphones)
don't want a pair that has a strong boost peak above 16K because although I can't hear it I have no idea if it will aggravate my tinnitus

heard a pair of Beats headphones and thought they were very poor, especially the hiss from the noise cancellation

I listen at rather low levels to guard against aggravating my tinnitus (which I don't have all the time and which is aggravated by certain types of sound and not others — electronic noise from coil whine possibly being one of the worst as every time I try to use a gaming PC I end up with awful aggravation, including warbling/whistling noises I never get otherwise)

prefer that they not have a microphone built into them

have no interest in Bluetooth due to the audio quality problems with the current codecs

I plan to use EQ so if EQ is needed to maximize the sound quality with a particular pair that's no problem

thanks!

 

[Robbo99999]

Country:
US

Budget:
<$600

Form factor:
not IEM (my left ear doesn't seem to be able to hold earplugs nor the IEMs I've tried well at all)

Use case:
mainly classical digital recordings with lossless compression

Source information:
will adapt as necessary to the headphones; currently have a cheap Behringer firewire DAC + headphone amp and two Macbook Pro laptops. Can't afford an expensive amp, though. $250 max.

Things that are important to you:
light weight
not too much clamping pressure
detail without exaggerated treble (but also not too rolled off below 16K)
adequate bass response at lower volume levels
accurate midrange

Your preferred sound signature/other headphones you've tried and liked/disliked:
no hiss please, even at low volume
good sound at lower volume levels

Anything else you feel might be relevant:
will only buy a product made in a nation that has legal same-sex marriage (preferably with as many parts sourced from such nations)

cannot hear above 16K

would be convenient to have a headphone that is compatible with Macs (which have gain that's too high for my Sony headphones)
don't want a pair that has a strong boost peak above 16K because although I can't hear it I have no idea if it will aggravate my tinnitus

heard a pair of Beats headphones and thought they were very poor, especially the hiss from the noise cancellation

I listen at rather low levels to guard against aggravating my tinnitus (which I don't have all the time and which is aggravated by certain types of sound and not others — electronic noise from coil whine possibly being one of the worst as every time I try to use a gaming PC I end up with awful aggravation, including warbling/whistling noises I never get otherwise)

prefer that they not have a microphone built into them

have no interest in Bluetooth due to the audio quality problems with the current codecs

I plan to use EQ so if EQ is needed to maximize the sound quality with a particular pair that's no problem

thanks!

If you're not gonna be using EQ, then how about Sennheiser HD600, I think that would be very good for classical, I have a pair of those and probably my best headphone when used without EQ, and maybe the best headphone for classical as very good smooth accurate mids. If you're going to EQ them then I recommend just putting on a +2dB Low Shelf at 75Hz - not anymore on that headphone as it dulls it too much. They do have a rather narrow soundstage, which is their worst point for me, but some people just don't really perceive soundstage or are not affected by it, so that might not be an issue for you.

If you're gonna be using EQ I'd recommend the HD560s and use it with the Oratory EQ, at which point you'd adjust the 105Hz Low Shelf bass level to your own liking. They are very reliable headphones in many ways, hard to fault them, and they have a good soundstage, and good ability to do bass properly too.

 

[Jimbob54]

If you're not gonna be using EQ, then how about Sennheiser HD600, I think that would be very good for classical, I have a pair of those and probably my best headphone when used without EQ, and maybe the best headphone for classical as very good smooth accurate mids. If you're going to EQ them then I recommend just putting on a +2dB Low Shelf at 75Hz - not anymore on that headphone as it dulls it too much. They do have a rather narrow soundstage, which is their worst point for me, but some people just don't really perceive soundstage or are not affected by it, so that might not be an issue for you.

If you're gonna be using EQ I'd recommend the HD560s and use it with the Oratory EQ, at which point you'd adjust the 105Hz Low Shelf bass level to your own liking. They are very reliable headphones in many ways, hard to fault them, and they have a good soundstage, and good ability to do bass properly too.

As he's in the US he would get far better value from the Drop /senn HD650 variant, the 6XX https://drop.com/buy/massdrop-sennheiser-hd6xx

 

[Robbo99999]

As he's in the US he would get far better value from the Drop /senn HD650 variant, the 6XX https://drop.com/buy/massdrop-sennheiser-hd6xx

That'd be OK with a bit more EQ, the HD600 is probably better in it's stock frequency response for classical than the HD6XX/650.

There's not much in it but those broad consistent differences even though small would be recognizable, and I think particularly the more treble of the HD600 above 7kHz - it does kinda need that treble up there as the HD600 is by no means bright, and especially not if you add a little bass boost to it.

 

[Jimbob54]

That'd be OK with a bit more EQ, the HD600 is probably better in it's stock frequency response for classical than the HD6XX/650.
View attachment 198741
There's not much in it but those broad consistent differences even though small would be recognizable, and I think particularly the more treble of the HD600 above 7kHz - it does kinda need that treble up there as the HD600 is by no means bright, and especially not if you add a little bass boost to it.

$135 difference vs that small difference? Nah.

 

[Robbo99999]

$135 difference vs that small difference? Nah.

Yeah, cool, if you EQ them then for sure the HD6XX, and if he doesn't EQ them, then that's the judgement call of the person in question. I wouldn't want my HD600 any darker though, so for stock listening it would be for me a waste to get the HD6XX.....but people do have to make their own choices.

 

[Robbo99999]

I recommended someone a sub $100 headphone over here (JBL Tune 710):

Headphone Measurements Using Brüel & Kjær 5128 HATS

My ear molds were made by Australian ACS dealer Pacific Ears. Looking at the way they made my patterns and the final product it appears my ear drums are only one or two mm from the tip of the ear mold. The foam in the image was pressed against my eardrum before the mold was made. They were...

www.audiosciencereview.com

(Just including this here for people who are interested in a sub $100 headphone, I couldn't find any with a decent frequency response at that price point apart from this one). He may join this discussion over here rather than there (I asked him to).

 

[statequieta]

• Country: Spain (EU)
• Budget: 100€
• Form factor: Over-ear
• Use case: casual listening plugged to Silent system of an acoustic piano
• Source information: no amp, right out the Silent System
• Things that are important to you: confort.

I preivously started the conversation in a wrong thread. There I explained that my wife is a pianist and then playing afterhours the acoustic piano, she needs a good pair of headphones connected to the silent system of a Yamaha acoustic piano (this is a system that cancels the real sound blocking the hammers to produce real sound, and simply generates the electronic sound).

Thanks for your help!

 

[Robbo99999]

• Country: Spain (EU)
• Budget: 100€
• Form factor: Over-ear
• Use case: casual listening plugged to Silent system of an acoustic piano
• Source information: no amp, right out the Silent System
• Things that are important to you: confort.

I preivously started the conversation in a wrong thread. There I explained that my wife is a pianist and then playing afterhours the acoustic piano, she needs a good pair of headphones connected to the silent system of a Yamaha acoustic piano (this is a system that cancels the real sound blocking the hammers to produce real sound, and simply generates the electronic sound).

Thanks for your help!

Hello, I replied to you in the other thread (and also if you notice the post in this thread before yours).

But anyway, I think the JBL Tune 710 BT is about your best option. It has a good pretty smooth frequency response with good compliance to the Harman Curve, so a lot of people are likely to appreciate the sound and it should be quite a neutral/accurate sound which bodes well for a musician playing the piano - afterall you're trying to reproduce the piano in your headphones authentically. The earcups are quite small, so if your wife has big ears (ha!) then she might not be able to get them to fit properly, but woman have smaller ears than men right, so I'm imagining that this headphone would fit her well. There's really not a lot of choice below $100, and some are an utter mess at these price points, but this one looks very promising.

EDIT: pics I found showing size of earcups:


And also from solderdude's website he measured the inner pad space size:
Inner Pad dimensions: length = 50mm, width = 37mm, depth = 20mm

TUNE 710 BT

back to JBLback to measurementshome published: Nov-12-2021 NO SMOOTHING is applied to the shown plots. Most measurement sites have some smoothing applied which ‘irons flat’ sharp peaks and ‘wiggles…

diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com

 

[statequieta]

Thanks for the advice. Point is, the source where the headphones will be connected is pretty simple and wont allow me to use bluetooth -this proprietary hardware from yamaha that generates the sound when a acoustic keys of the piano are pressed. In a nutshell, i need wired headphones.

 

[Robbo99999]

Thanks for the advice. Point is, the source where the headphones will be connected is pretty simple and wont allow me to use bluetooth -this proprietary hardware from yamaha that generates the sound when a acoustic keys of the piano are pressed. In a nutshell, i need wired headphones.

There's a wire in the box! It's 1.2m long, it's the black wire in the following pic.

 

[statequieta]

There's a wire in the box! It's 1.2m long, it's the black wire in the following pic.
View attachment 199866

Then, i think i,ve got a winner!

 

[Robbo99999]

Then, i think i,ve got a winner!

If your wife's ears fit in the relatively small earcups then I'd say for sure (I gave dimensions of the inside of the earcups in an earlier post). But you'll get a little bit less bass if it doesn't fit perfectly, which is also probably not a major issue for piano playing anyway.

 

[statequieta]

Nah! I’m sure her ears will fit . Thanks for the advice, i have showed her this JBL and she says she prefers the AKG92 (45€). I have tried to explain the frequency response and all that stuff, nothing works against the “stylish AKG”…

 

[Robbo99999]

Nah! I’m sure her ears will fit . Thanks for the advice, i have showed her this JBL and she says she prefers the AKG92 (45€). I have tried to explain the frequency response and all that stuff, nothing works against the “stylish AKG”…

I don't think you should get the K92, it looks like a total mess:

Headphone Measurements Using Brüel & Kjær 5128 HATS

This is an investigation thread into feasibility of ASR adopting the Brüel & Kjær Type 5128 "high-frequency" Head and Torso Simulator (HATS). It is on kind short-term loan from the company. As configured, it costs around US $41,000. This is quite a bit more money than competing solution...

www.audiosciencereview.com

This was measured by Amir when he was trialling the B&K fixture, rather than the GRAS measurement device he has now, so he was just starting out in headphone measurement so the data is not as good and also it's not directly comparable to GRAS measurements, but I think this frequency response is a mess by anyone's standards - it's hard to imagine a worse headphone! If your wife wants to purchase that over the JBL Tune 710 just for how "stylish" the headphone looks, then she's mad and deserves the worst possible experience when listening to her piano playback - well she'd have it! Try to convince her, afterall what's the point in you getting advice if she's instead gonna just choose the worst headphone in the world.

 

[Phoney]

I couldn't find all the frequency response in Oratory's list for the LCD-2C, but these are them for the LCD-X and LCD-2:

Audeze LCD-X (2021 revision).pdf

Shared with Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

Audeze LCD-2.pdf

Shared with Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

They both look like reasonably smooth frequency responses to EQ, so not problematical in that regard, and they both have pretty much the same stock bass extension, so purely from a frequency response point of view they're on an equal footing after EQ. You'd have to look into factors such as distortion measurements which you'd extrapolate after EQ, ie if you have to boost an area of the frequency response by +10dB then this might take you for instance from the 94dB distortion measurement to the 104dB distortion measurement at that point. You'd also want to take into account the physical design of the headphones, are they all broadly the same earcup shape and are the pads angled or not - angled pads might improve the soundstage. And in terms of soundstage you'd probably have to research user reports/reviews to guage a feel for how good the soundstage is for that headphone - if they're all the same gross physical design like for instance if you were to compare HD600 / HD650 / HD6XX, those 3 are essentially the same cups & headbands, same dimensions, same pads, essentially the same headphone apart from cosmetic and driver differences.....so these headphones would all have the same soundstage when EQ'd to the same curve........so you'd be taking these kind of aspects into account. You'd want to research if there are common faults with the models of headphone that you're considering, and look for reviews re comfort/fitment aspect. The last important point I want to make, see if you kind find any information about unit to unit variation for the headphone manufacturer & model that you're interested in buying - ideally you want a headphone that has low unit to unit variation so that way when you apply EQ's from people like Oratory then you can be more sure that the final frequency response you end up with will be close to the intended target - this can have a massive influence on the experience/sound if you're buying a headphone that has high unit to unit variation.

I got the old version of LCD-2C, and turns out they have a massive dip at around 3-5khz.. Apparently they are not the only Audeze with that flaw. Now, the newer version of it seems to have fixed that to some extent, but with the old version the dip is 11.5db deep when compensated to harman.. I tried boosting it all they way up, but that was very uncomfortable, you can't fix huge dips like that and expect a great result. It's kind of disappointing that they made a very low distortion headphone, and still manage to mess up the FR so bad that you still can't even fix it with EQ.. I guess I'll have to be cautious of versions and potensial FR flaw for specific versions when looking for Audeze headphones in the future.

 

[Phoney]

I might sell my A30/D30 stack. I'm never going to need anywhere close to this amount of power. Any dac/amp combo unit that can be used as both desktop and portable? Something that can drive both Arya v2 and Sennheiser HD800s with transparency, even with negative gain in EQ? I'm probably not going to buy HE6SE or Susvara. Any price, as long as it doesn't exceed $1000 dollars. Lets say something like a Topping NX7 with a built in dac. I have Qudelix 5k which can drive Arya v2 surprisingly well, but I would like atleast just a little bit more power. The more power the better, as long as it's dac and amp in the same unit, portable and transparent.