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Photography Isn't As Easy as It Looks

mhardy6647

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Just a reflection I wanted to share: This thread's title is one for the ages! :)
"Photography isn't as easy as it looks"
amen.

It also put me to mind of certain iconic photographs and/or photographers.
1612891122277.png

Lunch break durin' the construction of "30 Rock" :)


1612891237486.png

http://www.industrialrevolutioneatery.com/weekly-salute/charles-clyde-ebbets-1905-1978/


... and also, less nobly, of the title of a Steve Martin album (one that even has a hifi connection - "Googlephonics") ;)

1612891375442.png
 
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paulraphael

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Also I'm not friends with the director of MOMA.

You never know ... Anne Tucker, who for decades was head photo curator at the Museum of Fine Arts in Houston, started buying work from random artists online long before it was cool. She got some serious bargains for the collection. Never gave me the time of day though.
 
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Ron Texas

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You never know ... Anne Tucker, who for decades was head photo curator at the Museum of Fine Arts in Houston, started buying work from random artists online long before it was cool. She got some serious bargains for the collection. Never gave me the time of day though.

I'm a member of the Houston MFA and go there regularly. Their collection of photographs consists of mainly monochrome images of people. I probably met Anne Tucker at an art gallery opening or two, but did not know who she was. I'm not likely to ever become a fine art photographer.
 

paulraphael

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I'm a member of the Houston MFA and go there regularly. Their collection of photographs consists of mainly monochrome images of people.

The collection might lean that way, but it's got a vast amount of stuff, all kinds. They probably have gallery space for around 1% of their holdings. One of the sad things if your work gets picked up by a public collection is that you never know if it will see the light of day.
 
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Ron Texas

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The collection might lean that way, but it's got a vast amount of stuff, all kinds. They probably have gallery space for around 1% of their holdings. One of the sad things if your work gets picked up by a public collection is that you never know if it will see the light of day.

MFA just opened the Kinder building so they are up to 2%. Actually, I have contacts, but I don't have what they are interested in.
 

Wes

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One megabyte. Horizontal width of the forum is only 1000 pixels anyway so anything larger will get resized. So might as well size it down and then the limit is not an issue. Note that I will play for these bits to be hosted for eternity. :)

It would be nice if this forum automatically resized overly large photos as some do.
 
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Ron Texas

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I'm no expert on the likes of Instagram (I avoid social media in general) but have you ever considered that your success or lack thereof, may have less to do with the quality of your work, and a more to do with how you are presenting it?
https://hackerette.com/the-5-best-types-of-instagram-posts/
I'm successful in a way. I get around 30,000 image views per day on Flickr. I haven't tried Instagram because uploads are only possible using the app on a mobile phone which is an not convenient for me. In all honesty, I don't have to prove anything to anyone. However, the way our lives have changed has been a major inconvenience for a photographer who likes to travel and shoot at events.
 

Cider

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Interesting discussion. I'm not an artist, but I've watched my brother struggle to support himself with art and eventually give up. Fact is, art is cheap these days, and prosperity and technology gives most of us the time and means to dabble. In some ways I think photography is harder than other visual arts, because it's so easy to get caught up in process and technology, but in the end nobody* cares how an image was made. I'm reminded of the "hyper-realism" artists that draw photo-realistic images (typically using someone else's photo as the subject). All that discipline and training is made obsolete when someone invents a printer that prints in graphite.

*generalization!
 

312elements

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Interesting discussion. I'm not an artist, but I've watched my brother struggle to support himself with art and eventually give up. Fact is, art is cheap these days, and prosperity and technology gives most of us the time and means to dabble. In some ways I think photography is harder than other visual arts, because it's so easy to get caught up in process and technology, but in the end nobody* cares how an image was made. I'm reminded of the "hyper-realism" artists that draw photo-realistic images (typically using someone else's photo as the subject). All that discipline and training is made obsolete when someone invents a printer that prints in graphite.

*generalization!

I think you’re right. I will say that photography as a service can still be lucrative, but photography as an art is a very difficult road to profitability.
 
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Ron Texas

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I think you’re right. I will say that photography as a service can still be lucrative, but photography as an art is a very difficult road to profitability.

It has become difficult for the wedding photographers with some offering a DVD of images for as little as $200. People assemble their own album using an online service.
 

312elements

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It has become difficult for the wedding photographers with some offering a DVD of images for as little as $200. People assemble their own album using an online service.
I’m not suggesting those problems don’t exist, but those people aren’t “your”customers and those people got what they paid for. Just because Amazon sells $50 speakers doesn’t mean that people will stop buying multi thousand dollar speakers. Hell, a $99 DAC will perform as well or better than multi thousand dollar DAC’s and people still buy them. To that point, most of the successful wedding photographers I know are successful marketers as well.
 

rdenney

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I'm going back and reviewing some threads that I missed, because I wasn't looking at the photography stuff.

Saying photography is difficult is like saying music is difficult. But there are so many dimensions involved in that statement. Unskilled photographers may use automation and technology to achieve some modicum of technical competence, just as some musicians can be technically improved using tools like reverb, sampling, and autotune. That doesn't make technique unimportant. I once asked my tuba teacher, who was a symphony player, which was more important, musicality or technique? His answer, "Yes."

The OP's point (as quoted from a teacher) was that too much photography is trite, which means that to be non-trite, which is hard, it must never have been done before. To me, this is worshiping at the altar of innovation, which does seem to me to be particularly popular these days. At this point, however, is there any photograph at all that hasn't been made already? Some people revere craft, and some revere narrative and story. Some want photographs to pound their emotions, some want them to inspire political action, some want them to outrage those with whom they agree (or disagree), and others want photographs to take them to a place they'd rather be than where they are. And some just want photographs to show the orientation of the electrolytic capacitors on a power-supply board. But the most profound photos don't seem to have any particular goal or purpose--they just seem to work at some deeper level.

The more memorable the subject, the more people are motivated to represent it artistically, for reasons that range from remembering they or their loved ones were there to trying to say something new about a place about which millions of things have already been said. This is just as true for the "f/8 and be there" decisive-moment types as it is for landscape photographers. The one thing that is uniquely photographic is its unassailable (Paul would say indexical) connection to a time and place. So, choosing the right time is necessary for all photographs to be successful. But the definition of the right time isn't necessarily catching the peak of the action, or being related to any action at all.

The problem is that memorable subjects have themselves become trite, simply because so many are motivated to photograph them. Does that make them any less beautiful? I have photos of memorable places on my walls, and they inspire me with their beauty. So what if others made similar photographs?

Amir, the photo of the Japanese girl might be more superficially memorable, but the photo of the trees would be more likely to find a place on my wall--I hang art in my house for different reasons than MoMA buys art for their collection. They are preserving profundity. I am preserving peace and beauty. That's the thing with art--it must serve an infinitude of purposes, many of which are utterly unrelated to the "goals" of the artist.

About a decade a go, the photo below set a record by selling for $3.9 million.

7WN4DERNCBUKUJLKE4ID7GX6EM.jpg


Do we think Cindy Sherman (the photographer) just grabbed this with a point-n-shoot on her way by as an expression of "f/8 and be there"? No way. This was as carefully crafted as anything done in the photography world, but it's a subject not too different from what anyone might have in their iphone library. As with Amir's photo, though, it captures something important (at least to somebody), though we don't know what that is. And unlike Amir, Cindy Sherman has never attempted to enlighten us--the photo either speaks for itself or it doesn't.

Here's another. Is this a grab shot?

friedlander.JPG


I show this one on purpose, hoping to draw Paul into more commentary, because I know it's an important photo to him in particular. At first "Instagram" glance, it's a snapshot. But Lee Friedlander did things on purpose. This is where I agree with the OP--this looks easy but it is not. What makes it difficult is not, however, the innovation of it--but rather...what? I honestly don't know. Sure, the formal composition is right on the mark, but that serves Friedlander's purpose without defining it. And he never felt the need to enlighten us that I've seen. I think those who think they can identify what makes a photograph, or a painting, or a jazz riff profound art should be out there doing it. God knows I've tried.

Rick "still trying to figure it out after 45 years of practice" Denney
 

paulraphael

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View attachment 114290

I show this one on purpose, hoping to draw Paul into more commentary, because I know it's an important photo to him in particular.

I hear the dog whistle and come running.

Honestly, I'm a little perplexed when people think Friedlander's pictures look like snapshots. They look to me more like a mad genius playing 3-dimensional chess, and winning with moves that make everyone laugh. I never get tired of his work.

By the way, kudos to you for mention Cindy Sherman nicely. She sure takes a beating on amateur photo forums. Many among the long-white-beard-and-wooden-tripod crowd seem offended that other kinds of photography get attention.

I think with both these artists—Sherman especially—we get more answers by looking at whole bodies of work. The other images in the sequence give context and illumination to each other.

You can probably pick a few songs from an an album like, say, Pink Floyd's The Wall that out of context, would not seem like much. But you put them back in their sequence, they help bring coherence to the whole album.
 

restorer-john

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About a decade a go, the photo below set a record by selling for $3.9 million.

7WN4DERNCBUKUJLKE4ID7GX6EM.jpg

So a 1960s photo of a badly sunburnt chick half passed out on the kitchen floor tiles is worth 3.9 Million. The world has gone mad.
 

rdenney

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So a 1960s photo of a badly sunburnt chick half passed out on the kitchen floor tiles is worth 3.9 Million. The world has gone mad.
Yes, the world has gone mad. But not because of that.

Something's happening here, and it's happening to enough people to mean something. It may not be happening to you. It often doesn't happen to me.

Rick "noting art works that seem overtly silly and trivial to me sell without my approval for 10 times this photograph" Denney
 

restorer-john

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Welcome to the "long-white-beard-and-wooden-tripod crowd".

I actually (true story) found a wooden tripod yesterday when out for a bushwalk. No lie. Not a photography tripod, but a surveyors' tripod. In the vast block of bushland next to us. It had been surveyed about 5 years ago and clearly, they left a tripod deep in the bush and forgot about it. Still standing. Left it there as it was pretty deteriorated. No use to me either.
 
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