Pc or streamer.

[Steve Dallas]

A couple of thoughts...

You cannot judge the AE-9 based on the AE-5 review. Not all products from a company are built with the same hygiene.

You also cannot write of sound cards for life based on a single experience. There are some killer sound cards out there (see: RME).

Something about your setup is amiss, possibly in software, possibly in hardware. Don't give up just yet. As @somebodyelse mentioned, we need a lot more information to help you troubleshoot.

 

[john111]

You're right the ae-5 review was not all that good but did do well as far as comparing with other soundcards.
Listening to the card the stereo performance is not bad, sound quality has some detail and enthusiasm but when switching to surround 5.1 the performance is poor. The ae-5 looks to have good quality op-amps in the left and right channel but poorer quality smd components in the other channels.
For the OS i am using windows 10 home edition, then slotting the ae-9 into the pci-e slot of the asus H170I-PRO motherboard, then taking the ananlog outs from the ae-9, which are rca for the front left and right, and 3.5mm jacks for the remaining channels, this goes into three quad power amps to produce 5.1 sound
The ae-9 has the volume control and i am using direct mode to try and get the best possible sound.
The media player i am using is cyberlink powerdvd ultra 21.
Could it be as the motherboard has only one PCI express slot, most likely is this slot specialized for video cards only, could there be a compatabilty issue?

 

[somebodyelse]

I'm not a Windows user, so I'll leave others to comment on the Windows audio settings, peculiarities of Creative's drivers and their settings etc. or point you to the most relevant threads on the subject.

An incompatibility between PCI-e card and slot seems unlikely, and it would have to be a strange incompatibility to have the card working but somehow affect the audio. Apart from the Windows audio settings the most likely issue is ground related noise given your single ended interconnects, but you haven't mentioned hearing that.

 

[john111]

No noise issues, just flat boring sound lacking in detail.

 

[rkbates]

No noise issues, just flat boring sound lacking in detail.

Make some equalizer settings have gone random without you noticing?

 

[Steve Dallas]

No noise issues, just flat boring sound lacking in detail.

Does this apply to all channels, or just the surround channels?

I would comb through all the deep driver settings and look for any silly processing that is turned on by default.

Distortion could be the culprit as well, although I don't see enough of it in the AE-5 measurements to be a problem.

However, I never look to a DAC to solve flat, boring, lacking in detail problems. By definition, a DAC is supposed to convert digital bits into analog signals as accurately and transparently as possible. If a DAC sounds exciting or adds detail, it is doing something wrong, like influencing frequency response. Once a DAC reaches a certain level of performance, it sounds the same as all other DACs above that threshold, with very rare exception that you have to listen VERY critically to discern. Blind and double blind tests have borne this out many times.

 

[Foulchet]

Noise is to me pretty much a non-issue but maybe it depends on your gear. I have a 2012 Asus Rog Rampage Gene IV (it was mATX high end) and USB sound and even back/front jack are clean, no audible difference (maybe just a very small one, did not ABed it however but it is certainly like 99% close) vs my 1500 euros DAP+DAC stack.

However, when I hear music, it is to be in calm, not to power on my computer (which might also distracts me with the WEB etc.) with its fans. Especially also because Hifi space is separated clearly from the desk. So a streamer for the comfort alone, else a computer does the same job aned even more.

 

[john111]

Are you saying the on-board sound of the asus motherboard kept up with your dap dac stack.
Sounds like a good board if this is the case, a few floating around on ebay at the moment.
Can you please tell me a little more, which dap dac stack, and what is the onboard solution, is it a realtek codec.
Thanks

 

[john111]

They have used rampage 4 black, and Maximus iv Gene, and ROG Gene VII, on ebay.

Any thoughts?

 

[beeface]

Out of curiosity, how does the soundcard compare to the onboard sound of your current motherboard?

 

[Foulchet]

I don't know that much, it has SupremeFX III chip (8 channels) and it is said that it has a 1500 uF capacitor plus there is shielding and a separate electrical circuit. It has a THX logo, I do not know it is worth anything, I am pretty newbie.
My DAP+DAC stack is Cayin iDap-6 + iDac-6 Mk2 (with chip ESS ES9028Pro).

As I said, I dod not ABed it however I did not hear any imperfection in the sound and nothing striked me so I assume that the differences are pretty - if any - small. I may try a quick blind AB tonight or tomorrow out of curiosity on the same amp but I am pretty sure it will be very hard to tell apart.

 

[Foulchet]

Just performed the comparison, roughly matched (with Apple Watch mic).
Setup 1 : Motherboard jack-to-RCA -> Amp, files read with Groovy (W10 built-in player)
Setup 2 : DAP -> DAC -> Amp, i2S HDMI then RCA

I had to use the DAC in preout mode else computer was not powerful enough or too close to 100%, maybe I messed some settings. I do not think it had much impact. Files were my own CDs ripped from iTunes in ALAC.

Honestly there was a small difference in overall tone, hard to describe, depending on the sound but I couldn't label one as better than other. Perceived "definition" was the same, maybe one a tiny tiny bit less elegant on basses but you have to hear both to even notice, else you forget it.
Plus due to my level-matching methodology, there might have an actual difference in audio level. But even with it, I would not say that the difference was very big.
Now connecting the headphones directly to the computer using front jack, sound is powerful enough at 50% but sound is quite different. However my amplifier is a tube amp so it was expected. But actually at lowest impedance matching setting, the difference is small. This was sighted but this is not a critical part and both sounded OK. I have preference for tube sound (confirmed before on a blind test) but that is another story.

Headphones were HD560S, actually AKG 712 Pro is OK at 33% power. My conclusion : yes the motherboard is enough unless you lack power (I tested it with entry-levels headphones). I noticed some noise sometimes but is was more due to m terrible wiring with touching things. Still it did not made much difference. You have to compare it side by side to hear a tiny difference (if any), but anyway if you hear one for one or two minutes, your brain has already "equalized" what remains.

 

[Manojrc]

Nonsense. PC audio, done competently, is neither compressed nor noisy.

Hi Kal,

Can you please tell what does ‘PC audio, done’ correctly mean? I use Roon in PC, and (with your kind help), configured Dirac which feeds in to RME dac (USB) that flows to amp. How anyone can possible do it in a bad (incorrect ) way? Is there any better way to do in my case? Thanks

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Can you please tell what does ‘PC audio, done’ correctly mean? I use Roon in PC, and (with your kind help), configured Dirac which feeds in to RME dac (USB) that flows to amp. How anyone can possible do it in a bad (incorrect ) way? Is there any better way to do in my case? Thanks

I think there are things one can do wrong such as adding electrically-noisy gadgets and putting the DAC inside the case. Cheap, noisy fans and marginally capable CPUs are others. Competent design. I do not subscribe to the obsessive over-design (e.g., "audiophile" ethernet switches) that is becoming the 21st century equivalent of the "ultra-high-end" analog bling componentry.

 

[Joe Smith]

I use PC, Windows version of Spotify, with USB out to a Schiit Modi dac set to 24/192. I think an excternal dac works great, haven't used an add-on PC sound car in forever....

 

[john111]

Foulchet, please clarify, your asus mobo kept up with a 1500 euro stack is that correct? Might have to pick up an asus board. As the boards are about 10 years old do you think they are worth purchasing.

JoeSmith, i am ready to abandon soundcards all together as well, just not feeling it. Agree with the external dac suggestion, just need to find a good multi channel one. Am thinking of the motu mark 5.

 

[Steve Dallas]

Foulchet, please clarify, your asus mobo kept up with a 1500 euro stack is that correct? Might have to pick up an asus board. As the boards are about 10 years old do you think they are worth purchasing.

JoeSmith, i am ready to abandon soundcards all together as well, just not feeling it. Agree with the external dac suggestion, just need to find a good multi channel one. Am thinking of the motu mark 5.

I don't think you need to focus on the motherboard. Any competent system should be capable of playing and processing audio. One of my systems uses a home-built PC with a 5 year-old ASUS MOBO and AMD processor. Another system uses a retired Dell laptop with an old Intel processor. Both run my music players and Dirac standalone just fine. DACs are external via USB. Both sound great.

You will need a little more horsepower than I do for multichannel, but you will not need anything magical.

Have you seen this?

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...d-measurements-of-okto-dac8-8ch-dac-amp.7064/

 

[john111]

Yes, the okto dac is brilliant but is balanced out only, my amp is unbalanced. Would have purchased it otherwise, apart from the six month waiting list that is
Good news. Made a small breakthrough in the audio problem i am having, i looked at everything component on my pc, tampered with everything, updated everything, but to no avail.
Then it struck me to have a look at the power supply. I am using a corsair rm650x which i paid slightly over £100 for, also i have a corsair hx1000i which i paid slightly over £200. Took out the rmx and put in the hxi, upon boot up i immediatly noticed the desktop looked a lot sharper and detailed. Tried out the audio, audio has improved. Think i have stumbled on what the problem was all along. The corsair rmx is a poor quality supply.
Am going to investigate this further.

 

[Foulchet]

Yes I meant that. I guess that even current high end (and maybe middle end) motherboards are equal unless they dropped quality. And maybe something else is at stake on my computer or ears.