Passive loudspeakers aren’t as lame as vinyl…yet!

[Sharpi31]

There are always pros/cons when integrating multiple elements into one large heavy box. I wouldn’t buy an iMac I’d love to go fully active, but with external amplification and processing. I prefer the freedom to change individual elements when I want/need to do so.

 

[Cbdb2]

I guess my experience with active speakers over 20 years in studios with Genelecs and Meyers and my old Velodyne sub are different. Never seen an amp failure. Some of the 7 pairs of Meyer HD-1s in one studio needed surround replacement after 20 years of 8 hours a day use thou.
And the large electrolytics in passive crossovers do age and can change value. A lot harder to notice than an Amp failure but still audable.

 

[Deleted member 48726]

I guess my experience with active speakers over 20 years in studios with Genelecs and Meyers and my old Velodyne sub are different. Never seen an amp failure. Some of the 7 pairs of Meyer HD-1s in one studio needed surround replacement after 20 years of 8 hours a day use thou.

I don't consider Meyer Sound or studio Genelecs exactly mainstream. -Do you?

 

[Cbdb2]

I don't consider Meyer Sound or studio Genelecs exactly mainstream. -Do you?

So? I said Well designed electronics.

 

[Ron Texas]

Not another active vs passive thread, groan.

 

[Cbdb2]

True, Im done.

 

[Waxx]

What we are missing in hifi land largely are integrated amplifier setups for active multiway, where you have several amp channels and a DSP of very high quality build in one device, that is flexible to work with a varity of speakers. There are a few arround that combine amps and dsp, but they are or mono plate amps (Hypex Fusion) or low quality. But if we had a device with minidsp flex capebilty on dsp, but 2x6 or 2x8ch and Hypex/Purifi level quality power amps, on pair fit for tweeters, one pair for mids, and a few channels for (sub)woofers, with enough power for average speakers. That would be much better than build in amps in speakers that break down. The connector could be a multichannel Speakon (NL4 or NL8) so you got only one cable to connect to the speaker and inputs could be analog (balanced or unbalanced) and digital. In Pro Audio, that is more and more the standard setup, so technically there should be no issue.

But now we are forced to use a lot of devices to get active speakers with no amps build in. My active (diy) system runs on a mindsp flex and a few Hypex NCore based amps

And i also think there will be always a place for passive speakers, with passive crossovers. In a lot of cases that is more practical, and practicality is a more important factor for most hifi people than absolute the best. Passives with an integrated amp is easy to setup and use with quiet decent results. Maybe not absolute top of the line, but decent enough for most people's needs when done right.

 

[Digby]

I do think most active speakers are destined to become e-waste (save perhaps Genelec or Neumann, but is this an Apple type situation..similar price to buy new than repair?). The onboard electronics are typically not repairable in the way separate amplifiers are and many who will repair amplifiers refuse to fix (or attempt to fix) active speakers.

 

[IPunchCholla]

Does anyone have any actual evidence of time to failure for actives and/or passives?

Or about repairability of the amps inside actives?

My actives have A/B amps in them. Intuitively it makes sense that the heat inside the box will age them faster than a well cooled external amp, but is there evidence that this is true? The amps do have external heat sinks after all, so maybe they are cool enough?

Is there reason I couldn’t just open up the speaker and fix the amp if it fails? The screws are right there just like on an external amp case. And the stickers telling you not to open it up, same as on my external amp.

 

[jeffhenning]

There are quite a few companies that produce active speakers: Genelec, Neumann, JBL, Klipch, SVS, Elac, Focal, Fluance, Buchardt, Q Acoustics, Kanto, Jamo, Audioengine, Edifier, etc., etc.

Some people want to keep their electronics and speakers separate, for various reasons. But, I agree, active speakers have some advantages. Indeed, I removed the passive crossovers from my speakers and now I run them all active. The improvement in sound is significant.

My point is that most true studio monitors today are active. If you shop at Sweetwater or B&H, there are very few passive monitors. I’d guess that better than 90% are active. Those numbers are the inverse for HiFi speakers.

As to using external amps and processors to achieve the same goal as integrated plate amps, absolutely. The list of manufacturers that do that is even smaller. Most people don’t want to do that much work regardless of it giving great results. It’s also really easy to screw the system up badly if you don’t know what you’re doing. Obviously, this whole process is a lot smoother if you were using a processor that offers an editor for the system that you can use on your computer. That is a lot easier than scrolling between tiny pages on a front panel interface.

I’ve done DIY tri-amping with an external crossover myself after an amp went bad and fried a woofer in my studio monitors.

I found it a lot of fun to screw around with the crossover settings and the sound was improved when it was dialed in. It is not something I would suggest to anyone unless they have the time and the knowledge to do it correctly. Most people do not on both counts.

In that case, get a pair of LS60’s and call it a day!

 

[terryforsythe]

My point is that most true studio monitors today are active. If you shop at Sweetwater or B&H, there are very few passive monitors. I’d guess that better than 90% are active. Those numbers are the inverse for HiFi speakers.

As to using external amps and processors to achieve the same goal as integrated plate amps, absolutely. The list of manufacturers that do that is even smaller. Most people don’t want to do that much work regardless of it giving great results. It’s also really easy to screw the system up badly if you don’t know what you’re doing. Obviously, this whole process is a lot smoother if you were using a processor that offers an editor for the system that you can use on your computer. That is a lot easier than scrolling between tiny pages on a front panel interface.

I’ve done DIY tri-amping with an external crossover myself after an amp went bad and fried a woofer in my studio monitors.

I found it a lot of fun to screw around with the crossover settings and the sound was improved when it was dialed in. It is not something I would suggest to anyone unless they have the time and the knowledge to do it correctly. Most people do not on both counts.

In that case, get a pair of LS60’s and call it a day!

I have LS60s in my office, and they are very good.

I have a miniDSP Flex HTx for the family room. It is 8-channel and made the conversion of my passive speakers to be all active a breeze. The software user interface is good.

 

[jeffhenning]

Wow, Hi Fi guys think active speakers are too accurate?



I rate your troll a 6.

My favorite phrase that reviewers would use was that “they are too clinical“. Can’t tell you how many times I’ve read that or something like it about many types of audio equipment.

I’ll go out on a limb and make the assumption that means that the distortion is low and the frequency response is flat. You know, something approaching the ideal loudspeaker.

Certainly, you don’t want that.

 

[Zapper]

Is there reason I couldn’t just open up the speaker and fix the amp if it fails?

No. The real issue is if you can obtain schematics and part list. If not, a single or double sided PCB can be mapped if you devote the time. Multilayer PCBs and/or the use of custom or unmarked ICs or other components can make reverse engineering the PCB very difficult.

When my 1990's active subwoofer amp failed, I looked at replacing the plate amp, repairing it, and buying a new sub. A new sub was the most economical and satisfactory solution.

 

[Zapper]

I’ll go out on a limb and make the assumption that means that the distortion is low and the frequency response is flat. You know, something approaching the ideal loudspeaker.

As Erin notes in his reviews, it's hard to find things to say about a low-distortion, neutral speaker. Reviewers hate that! It deprives them of opportunities for colorful adjectives and metaphors. To paraphrase Tolstoy: All accurate speakers are alike; each inaccurate speaker is colored in its own way.

 

[Chrispy]

If I were starting fresh I could see going with actives but that's not how I started in any case and the old stuff works perfectly fine so see no reason to just change over either. I do own one pair of actives, some JBL LSR305s that got some good write-ups and piqued my curiosity several years back, but wasn't paying a lot of attention to actives up til then in general. OTOH I am not crazy about amps in the boxes for subs or speakers, prefer rack amps/electronics, and finding electrical plugs for speakers for all my multich systems would be a pain....my house just doesn't have all that many outlets. Time will tell on longevity or how well supported the internal amps are down the line, but I'm skeptical....

 

[terryforsythe]

Time will tell on longevity or how well supported the internal amps are down the line, but I'm skeptical....

I have a Velodyne subwoofer. The first plate amp started humming after a few years. I had it replaced over 20 years ago (I don't remember whether it was still under warranty). The second plate amp still is going strong. But, at this point, if it fails I'm not sure I would be able to find a replacement.

 

[Chrispy]

I have a Velodyne subwoofer. The first plate amp started humming after a few years. I had it replaced over 20 years ago (I don't remember whether it was still under warranty). The second plate amp still is going strong. But, at this point, if it fails I'm not sure I would be able to find a replacement.

Yeah I've had plate amp issues with two subs....but with most subs you can easily use external amplification if the plate amp fails....the Velodyne have the servo circuitry? That could be harder to match up.

 

[terryforsythe]

Yeah I've had plate amp issues with two subs....but with most subs you can easily use external amplification if the plate amp fails....the Velodyne have the servo circuitry? That could be harder to match up.

Yes, servo controlled. If it fails I won't be able to just use an external amplifier without giving up its accuracy. I probably would first try to troubleshoot it.

 

[Vacceo]

I will join the "multichannel hassle crew" in this one. There are 11 channel systems with Genelecs, that is for sure. However, it is not an easy or convenient setup for once and second, there is also the issue of decoding Atmos and DTS. AES is not common outside pro audio (that could help sending signals on network cable), WISA is quite limited channel-wise and there´s still the issue of a "central hub" to plug sources. While all these elements could be packed in a user-friendly environment and give the user the capacity to use a phone APP to also control the sources themselves (now that Thread and Matter are a thing in domotics), it seems like that would be such a niche market that it does not seem very profitable to dump resources there.

My guess is that multichannel expansion with home-user actives could come from a manufacturer like KEF or Klipsch that created a hub to run wire to a variying amount of speakers and from there, release a bunch of sources (turntables, CD´s...) that fit well with such device. Probably Genelec has though of it, keeping everything in the digital domain till the last few inches; but companies do not have infinite resources nor the expertise to develop all the software when they could be allocating funds to get better speakers.

Perhaps some day, someone will install a full Sigberg multichannel setup. That could be quite a monument.

 

[Anton D]

My favorite phrase that reviewers would use was that “they are too clinical“. Can’t tell you how many times I’ve read that or something like it about many types of audio equipment.

I’ll go out on a limb and make the assumption that means that the distortion is low and the frequency response is flat. You know, something approaching the ideal loudspeaker.

Certainly, you don’t want that.

Yeah yeah yeah, more of "my way or it's wrong" BS.

This is just more Holden Caulfield type generalization for the sake of pedantic self satisfaction.