One “good” sub driver vs. 2-3 for TACTILE response?

[Snoochers]

I’m happy with my general bass situation with my two 21” subs but I’m interested in having 1-3 Nearfield subs for a more tactile experience.

I got a few 75$ 12” subs. They seem fine but I’m sure are bottom of the barrel. I don’t know much about them other than 250rms.

I could alternatively get a better 200-300$ 12” driver. SPL it’s not important because they are near field and will be pretty low volume.

If I’m interested purely in tactile experience, would it be better to go with 2 to 3 cheap subwoofers or one better one?

I’m leaning on one driver since I’d have to make just one enclosure.

I don’t know if it changes anything but I’d be sticking the driver into a riser like this. The chair would be in front of the riser

EDIT: I think based on my experience and what I'm reading online that I'm interested in a somewhat mild tactile experience and nothing extreme.

Edit2: either way I’m limited to 12”. Can’t go 15 or beyond. Maybe 13”

 

[Oddball]

Probably best to define tactile experience - looking for infra or higher chest punch and such experience near field? Or both? Also, re low volume, they would probably have to be set lower than your 21's that are likely further away, but you should do the math as to what is the "low volume". Might turn our it would not be so low if you want them to be felt (and heard).

 

[Snoochers]

Probably best to define tactile experience - looking for infra or higher chest punch and such experience near field? Or both? Also, re low volume, they would probably have to be set lower than your 21's that are likely further away, but you should do the math as to what is the "low volume". Might turn our it would not be so low if you want them to be felt (and heard).

Thanks for this. I’m thinking both. I did a test today with the cheap driver and I felt then and they were relatively quiet which is promising

 

[Jim Taylor]

Would you consider bass shakers? https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...le-transducer-performance-measurements.52492/

 

[Snoochers]

Would you consider bass shakers? https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...le-transducer-performance-measurements.52492/

Thanks for this. I actually installed a hovereze and it was great but my wife hated the added height. She also didn't like the purely tactile experience and I believe a more "natural" feel from subs might be better. I am toying with the idea of using Crowson's, which I see were not included in your test. Maybe because they're different?

 

[Oddball]

Well if infra is in play then I guess need the big guns that will go low. Also check the SPL requirements so can size the amp. I run 2 Arendal 1723 2Vs near field (probably one would be enough though) and need to turn them up to some 60% gain to be in balance with front subs as I am not using them solely for tactile experience. Nearfield subs can truly shake the hell out of the MLP in all aspects. It's not a shaker, but is pretty intense if you turn it up.

 

[Snoochers]

Well if infra is in play then I guess need the big guns that will go low. Also check the SPL requirements so can size the amp. I run 2 Arendal 1723 2Vs near field (probably one would be enough though) and need to turn them up to some 60% gain to be in balance with front subs as I am not using them solely for tactile experience. Nearfield subs can truly shake the hell out of the MLP in all aspects. It's not a shaker, but is pretty intense if you turn it up.

Yes that is kind of what I'm thinking but wouldn't 3 crappier subs that suffer in the low region add 10db to the low region because there's 3 of them?

 

[Oddball]

Yes that is kind of what I'm thinking but wouldn't 3 crappier subs that suffer in the low region add 10db to the low region because there's 3 of them?

Don't know how how they would reach. Infra is below 20hz, so unlikely that small subs and drivers could do that unless you have army of them. They generally fall off the cliff before 20hz. Arendal's 1723 2V have two opposed 13.8" drivers and pretty large boxes and generally dig down to 15hz in room competently. I have a room mode that extends that further down, but honestly not into infra so I roll that off.

 

[Snoochers]

Don't know how how they would reach. Infra is below 20hz, so unlikely that small subs and drivers could do that unless you have army of them. They generally fall off the cliff before 20hz. Arendal's 1723 2V have two opposed 13.8" drivers and pretty large boxes and generally dig down to 15hz in room competently. I have a room mode that extends that further down, but honestly not into infra so I roll that off.

Yes but I’m limited to 12” regardless. So the question is one “good” 12” or three “mediocre” 12”. 18” isn’t available unfortunately. Maybe 13”

 

[Oddball]

Yes but I’m limited to 12” regardless. So the question is one “good” 12” or three “mediocre” 12”. 18” isn’t available unfortunately. Maybe 13”

Did not have experience with such choice, so unfortunately can't comment. You would need to look at the specs of the good vs. mediocre and extrapolate how would that translate into FQ response and distortion. Also, think about the box, will need to be large for infra and if in open space ported might be a better choice.

 

[Snoochers]

E wa

Did not have experience with such choice, so unfortunately can't comment. You would need to look at the specs of the good vs. mediocre and extrapolate how would that translate into FQ response and distortion. Also, think about the box, will need to be large for infra and if in open space ported might be a better choice.

I think ported plays better with ported? My other subs are ported. Would an entire riser count as a very large box? I’m tempted to put them in the face of the riser without a separate enclosure for the driver. Alternatively, I built an enclosure for it, and I slide it in the riser.

 

[Oddball]

Not a DIY person unfortunately, so might want to post this box design question separately. Difficult to say how will these drivers interact in the common box and how will you design and proportion the box and the ports for optimal outcome. This gets to nitty gritty engineering and definitively not that guy myself. Seems like a challenging project though.

Ported with ported is generally easier to integrate so preferred.

 

[Waxx]

For such subs the dayton subwoofers are very good and relative cheap. An Dayton RS315HO-44 (300€) or a Dayton Audio RSS210HO-4 (200€) are hard to beat that low for that price and size. They don't do higher frequencies good (dont use them above 100Hz), but for the real low sub, they great. I would use them sealed and eq, because this kind of subs vented results in a very long large vent, often bigger than the cabinet itself. These drivers can do that (just like more of the Dayton RSS and UM series subwoofers). If you're on a budget (or even not) this are the ones i would go for.

An other option are the Eminence Lab12 drivers, but they are less good, and more expensive for this. These go very deep in a big enclosure, ported or sealed with eq (and they need eq, even ported). When used right they can be top level subs, also for home use. The CSS SDX12 may also be a good option (i never used it, but trustable sources say so), but it's hard to get in a lot of places in the world.

 

[Snoochers]

For such subs the dayton subwoofers are very good and relative cheap. An Dayton RS315HO-44 (300€) or a Dayton Audio RSS210HO-4 (200€) are hard to beat that low for that price and size. They don't do higher frequencies good (dont use them above 100Hz), but for the real low sub, they great. I would use them sealed and eq, because this kind of subs vented results in a very long large vent, often bigger than the cabinet itself. These drivers can do that (just like more of the Dayton RSS and UM series subwoofers). If you're on a budget (or even not) this are the ones i would go for.

An other option are the Eminence Lab12 drivers, but they are less good, and more expensive for this. These go very deep in a big enclosure, ported or sealed with eq (and they need eq, even ported). When used right they can be top level subs, also for home use. The CSS SDX12 may also be a good option (i never used it, but trustable sources say so), but it's hard to get in a lot of places in the world.

Thank you. I ordered a RS315HO-4. I already have two ported subs. Is it a good idea to seal the RS315HO-4?

 

[Waxx]

It depends on how low you want it and if you got dsp to boost the lower bass. This is the response of both simmed fast on factory specs in winISD. If it's on low volume tactile feel sub that you want and you got dsp, then sealed is the best. But higher is not what you want, and resistive vents are a bit fidling along (try, measure, adjust and repeat untill it's done). It's complicated. The best would be sealed with dsp to boost the bass. It can be 96dB at 20Hz, that is house shaking level so you got the xmax room for that. You will need a 250w amp minimum for that.

Without dsp I would go vented, but the vent will be long, you need a 10cm diameter vent of 83cm. That is not ideal. You could tune it higher, or use resistive vents to get lower with this driver:

You could use the vented if you got space for an external port in that riser. if you cross low (<100Hz) with a steep filter (4th order or so), you won't exite the 1st port resonance at 210Hz and those above.

 

[Snoochers]

I will be sliding in in a riser yes. There are currently some vents on the riser. But one complicated factor is the riser is full of insulation to prevent unwanted reverb in there. I could put a hole in the riser right next to where the sub is probably easily. I do have a MiniDSP.

My understanding is that mixing ported subwoofers and sealed sub subwoofers can be problematic. Maybe something with the timing. Do you see a problem with going vented and sealed in the same room? Maybe it changes if we consider that the near field sub won’t be very loud

My two 21 inch subwoofers are ported

 

[Waxx]

btw, downfiring sealed will give the bass an extra boost as the floor becomes a part of the box. You need to leave some space (study that) to make that work, but the driver becomes mass loaded by the trapped air and goes lower naturally, without eq.

 

[Snoochers]

btw, downfiring sealed will give the bass an extra boost as the floor becomes a part of the box. You need to leave some space (study that) to make that work, but the driver becomes mass loaded by the trapped air and goes lower naturally, without eq.

I won’t wanna do that because of the nature of the riser and everything and I want access to the driver, but it’s a good idea. What are your thoughts of having two ported subwoofers and this additional sealed subwoofer?

 

[Snoochers]

Any chance you can share those winiSD projects with me? I just downloaded the software and am poking around. That being said, if you want to just give me the answers that's fine lol.

If I am making ported (because mixing sealed and ported is bad) then let's assume the box has a 12x14" front.

How deep should it be? How big should the port be? Should it be at the side or front, does it matter?